Being a deist

@pb1022 said
You understand neither.

Actually, I do understand. And telling you that I do ~ in a discussion ~ is a reasonable response by me to what you said, given my life experience. Meanwhile, simply contradicting me ~ an ex-Christian and someone interested in religious beliefs and faith ~ is not really much of a debating point on your part.

@fmf said
If deists' perception of the creator entity means they don't think something came from nothing, they don't think life came from non-life, they don't think order came from chaos, and they don't think consciousness came from "mindlessness", then that may not be "worthless" to them. Deists don't have any obligation to make either theists or atheists think their perception of the universe is not "worthless".

But they can understand all of that without reading the Holy Bible.

Deists don’t need the Holy Bible to tell them something didn’t come from nothing, life didn’t come from non-life, order didn’t come from chaos, and consciousness didn’t come from mindlessness.

They can understand all that without the Bible,

@fmf said
All human beings can draw upon all manner of philosophical, psychological and spiritual resources and so get through difficult times.

You’re at a disadvantage here because you don’t believe God exists. And not only do I lack the patience and interest to explain a relationship with God to you, you lack the ability to understand it.

It’s pointless to continue on this track.

@pb1022 said
But they can understand all of that without reading the Holy Bible.

I didn't say they need to read the Bible to make their deductions about the nature of the universe and the existence of a creator entity. You said: "In terms of knowing anything about the creator entity, it would be worthless from a deist’s perspective". I don't see how it would be "worthless".

@pb1022 said
And not only do I lack the patience and interest to explain a relationship with God to you, you lack the ability to understand it.

Having had strong Christian faith for more than 25 years of my adult life, I can say that I do understand what you claim about your "relationship with God" and I certainly don't "lack the ability to understand it".

After 30 years, on and off, living in Indonesia, for instance, never in an ex-pat or Christian bubble, nor cut off from local communities, I also understand the "relationship with God" that Muslims believe they have. I understand it very well Knowledge and personal experience deals pretty well with any "lack the ability to understand" another's faith.

@fmf said
Actually, I do understand. And telling you that I do ~ in a discussion ~ is a reasonable response by me to what you said, given my life experience. Meanwhile, simply contradicting me ~ an ex-Christian and someone interested in religious beliefs and faith ~ is not really much of a debating point on your part.

I don’t think you do.

You don’t know anything about me and my walk with God and you (imo) lack the ability to understand what a relationship with God is like, nor do I think I have the ability to explain it in carnal terms (if I had the interest.) And even if you did (and do) believe you had a relationship with God at one point in your life, everyone’s relationship with God is different and God interacts with believers in different ways.

I think the biggest reason believers don’t have a relationship with God is they’re not interested. They don’t pray, they don’t read or handwrite God’s Word, they don’t initiate, let alone pursue, a relationship with Him. I don’t think God’s going to force anyone to have a relationship with Him.

I’m not debating you - I’m responding to questions and comments you post on a public chess forum.

If you don’t want me to respond to your OPs in the future, just indicate that in the OP. I’ll respect that.

@fmf said
I didn't say they need to read the Bible to make their deductions about the nature of the universe and the existence of a creator entity. You said: "In terms of knowing anything about the creator entity, it would be worthless from a deist’s perspective". I don't see how it would be "worthless".

<<You said: "In terms of knowing anything about the creator entity, it would be worthless from a deist’s perspective". I don't see how it would be "worthless">>

I thought deists didn’t believe God has revealed anything about Himsrlf to His creation.

@pb1022 said
You don’t know anything about me and my walk with God and you (imo) lack the ability to understand what a relationship with God is like, nor do I think I have the ability to explain it in carnal terms (if I had the interest.) And even if you did (and do) believe you had a relationship with God at one point in your life, everyone’s relationship with God is different and God interacts with believers in different ways.

I think my own life experience means I am well able to not only understand but also empathize with Christians when they talk about their "relationship with God".

Everyone’s relationship with God is different and God interacts with believers in different ways.

The notion that I "lack the ability to understand what [Christians'] relationship with God" means because I haven't met every Christian ~ and therefore not seen how every single Christian's "relationship with God" is different ~ is a very weak debating point.

@fmf said
Having had strong Christian faith for more than 25 years of my adult life, I can say that I do understand what you claim about your "relationship with God" and I certainly don't "lack the ability to understand it".

After 30 years, on and off, living in Indonesia, for instance, never in an ex-pat or Christian bubble, nor cut off from local communities, I also understand the "r ...[text shortened]... and personal experience deals pretty well with any "lack the ability to understand" another's faith.

You’re assuming your relationship with God was the same as my relationship with God.

More importantly, you’re assuming your interest in having, cultivating and strengthening your relationship with God was the same as mine.

You’re assuming an awful lot and I think your assumptions are wrong.

I can’t speak to Muslims because I don’t know any personally, but I would wonder, based on what I know of their beliefs and practices, how much of a Muslim’s relationship with God has a slave to slave master mentality vs. a friend to friend mentality.

@pb1022 said
I thought deists didn’t believe God has revealed anything about Himsrlf to His creation.

That's right. Deists don't subscribe to the world's "revealed" religions. They hold the belief that God is the creator of the universe and gave human beings the ability to think based on observations and speculation.

@pb1022 said
You’re assuming your relationship with God was the same as my relationship with God.

It doesn't have to have been "the same" for me to be able to understand what Christians believe about having a "relationship with God" and to understand the claims they make about themselves stemming from that perceived relationship.

@fmf said
I think my own life experience means I am well able to not only understand but also empathize with Christians when they talk about their "relationship with God".

Everyone’s relationship with God is different and God interacts with believers in different ways.

The notion that I "lack the ability to understand what [Christians'] relationship with God" means because I h ...[text shortened]... n how every single Christian's "relationship with God" is different ~ is a very weak debating point.

As I said previously, I’m not debating you. I’m responding to questions and comments you post.

As I also said previously, I don’t think you can understand *my* relationship with God because you don’t know me, what I’ve been through and how strongly I’ve pursued a relationship with God.

If you want to believe you know all about me and my relationship with God, go ahead. I couldn’t care less.

@fmf said
That's right. Deists don't subscribe to the world's "revealed" religions. They hold the belief that God is the creator of the universe and gave human beings the ability to think based on observations and speculation.

Right. So what’s the point in a deist reading the Holy Bible in terms of knowing the creator entity?

@pb1022 said
More importantly, you’re assuming your interest in having, cultivating and strengthening your relationship with God was the same as mine.

It doesn't have to have been "the same". It may have been stronger or more sincere and more permeating than yours. It may have been weaker, not as sincere, and less permeating than yours. It doesn't really matter.

My experience doesn't have to have been exactly "the same" as yours for me to be able to understand the Christian belief in a "relationship with God".

@fmf said
It doesn't have to have been "the same" for me to be able to understand what Christians believe about having a "relationship with God" and to understand the claims they make about themselves stemming from that perceived relationship.

I think it does.

If you know (or think you know) the relationship between your best friend and his wife, does that mean you know the relationship between every married couple?