God and Science

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77d

divegeester

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37d

@pettytalk said
And for Christ's sake, don't pay any attention to divegeester.

For a poster so poorly equipped to engage with me, you certainly seem determined attract my attention in a negative way.

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@pettytalk said
You've been repeatedly told that using science to argue for Christ is a waste of time. Christ, as depicted in the Gospels and the rest of the New Testament, did not leave any written works authored by him as Jesus. He certainly did not convey any scientific facts nor use science to explain the nature of the Kingdom of God to his followers.

Do you ever seriously consider ...[text shortened]... ything from the salad bar onto his plate, then tops it with all different salad dressings available.

You may keep your opinions about my choices of topics to yourself if you don’t mind.

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@lemonjello said
Your first paragraph is word salad.

You seem to be saying that evidential interpretation of how things work is a biased process wherein one enters and leaves with his or her pet presuppositions, just contorting whatever evidence to spare them. No, that is apparently what you and Lennox strive to do; but that is not the way science and real explanation work. You and L ...[text shortened]... out here is that you appear woefully miseducated on the evidential support for evolutionary theory.

Word salad, I don't think you even see what I am complaining about do you know what integrated systems are and how information directs the processes in life?

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Nervous, Respiratory, Circulatory, Digestive, and Endocrine systems, plus all of the start-stop, level-checking, and error-checking going on in life, on top of all of the other things requiring information to be translated and processed, how is a mind not responsible for these things? The level of functional systematic complexity is so high we don't grasp it all, yet under a rock some where life started and evolved into what we see today through an indifferent, pitiless, mindless process?

divegeester

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@kellyjay said? The level of functional systematic complexity is so high we don't grasp it all, yet under a rock some where life started and evolved into what we see today through an indifferent, pitiless, mindless process?

If there is no mind then there can be no indifference or pity.

That there is no indifference or pity is not evidence that “god did it”.

God did do it, but there is still no evidence of that, nor is there evidence of differentiated mindfulness nor of pity.

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36d

@kellyjay said
You may keep your opinions about my choices of topics to yourself if you don’t mind.

My dearest faithful one, like a good neighbor, I'm here for you.

It's not a matter of the choices we make on the face of the earth. The choices we make are all made in a place that's between Heaven and Hell. Here on the earth, we carry on with the choices we made in that unseen middle ground. You have to be born again to see it for yourself. Actually, you have seen it countless times, but you just don't remember it.

If you want to make converts, or just make a pitch for the existence of God, instead of using physical science, why not go ahead and perform the things that Christ said his followers would be able to perform, if they believed in him? You do believe in Jesus, right?

Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Why don't you lay your hands on divegeester, and cast out the demon possessing him, which is the evil demon of stupidity. If you are able, you'll speedily make many here to become believers.

God does roll with the changes. The next tables he'll turn over are the ones at the seat of Christianity.... Rome. "Of all the symbols commonly used by early Christians, the fish was the most mystic."

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@pettytalk said
My dearest faithful one, like a good neighbor, I'm here for you.

It's not a matter of the choices we make on the face of the earth. The choices we make are all made in a place that's between Heaven and Hell. Here on the earth, we carry on with the choices we made in that unseen middle ground. You have to be born again to see it for yourself. Actually, you have seen it c ...[text shortened]... by early Christians, the fish was the most mystic."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1ml05Ty5Ao

I am not interested in your how to evangelize another. If you have topics that you think would do what you think is required by all means speak up. Feel free to engage in discussions, don’t worry about who I choose to engage with or not. If you think I am in error about something speak up. If you have content to add do so.

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35d

@kellyjay said
I am not interested in your how to evangelize another. If you have topics that you think would do what you think is required by all means speak up. Feel free to engage in discussions, don’t worry about who I choose to engage with or not. If you think I am in error about something speak up. If you have content to add do so.

How do you see the particular passage I used in the spirit of humor?

Seriously! What is your interpretation of the passage which many false teachers and false prophets of Christianity have been using to make themselves filthy rich? Why do they have to fake it, if it's written that it comes straight from the horse's mouth?

"And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

Do you believe you are, or will be, saved? And if you do, do you also believe, as a believer, that you can perform any of those things Christ said about those who believe in him, and in his resurrection from the dead?

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@pettytalk said
How do you see the particular passage I used in the spirit of humor?

Seriously! What is your interpretation of the passage which many false teachers and false prophets of Christianity have been using to make themselves filthy rich? Why do they have to fake it, if it's written that it comes straight from the horse's mouth?

"And these signs will follow those who belie ...[text shortened]... elieve in him, and in his resurrection from the dead?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bjYTpNfX8M

False teachers often use the truth and just alter it to enrich themselves. That doesn’t change anything about the truth, it may cast doubts on truth, but it absolutely reveals the wicked’s heart’s motivation.

I am saved by Jesus Christ, He alone is our Savior. What God has chosen to do with and through me is of no consequence to you it Jesus Christ who is the Way. Truth, and the Life.

With respect to those who love the world, and spend their time enriching themselves over people and God, the love of God isn’t in them.

divegeester

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@pettytalk said

Do you believe you are, or will be, saved? And if you do, do you also believe, as a believer, that you can perform any of those things Christ said about those who believe in him, and in his resurrection from the dead?

Why do ask others what they believe but refuse to confirm if you yourself are Christian, Mormon or whatever? Are you embarrassed?

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@kellyjay said
False teachers often use the truth and just alter it to enrich themselves. That doesn’t change anything about the truth, it may cast doubts on truth, but it absolutely reveals the wicked’s heart’s motivation.

I am saved by Jesus Christ, He alone is our Savior. What God has chosen to do with and through me is of no consequence to you it Jesus Christ who is the Way. Truth, ...[text shortened]... world, and spend their time enriching themselves over people and God, the love of God isn’t in them.

I understand all you say, but you have not addressed the main question I asked.

By addressing false preachers/charlatans, I was merely pointing out the clear and evident abuse of scripture by these phony miracle workers. The point was that if they have to fake it, it comes down to two alternatives: either they are not truly believers, or the scripture, Mark 16:17-18, is not the word of God.

But you, as a true believer, could put Mark 16:17-18 into practice to prove the truth of God's word. After all, the words of Jesus in that passage are more than clear; they are very specific and unambiguous.

Jesus is instructing all believers to give signs of their belief to others, especially to the unbelievers, since the instruction follows Jesus' reproach of his own close disciples for not believing Jesus had resurrected, as told to them previously by eyewitnesses.

Therefore, since science can be observed, the signs Jesus is instructing all believers to show to others can also be observed under controlled conditions, just as much as scientific experiments, which are made to get to the truth of the matter.

Therefore, in this thread you started on God and science, to show that science can prove the existence of God, why can't you experiment, using Mark 16:17-18, and human guinea pigs as the objects on which to perform a small experiment?

A word of CAUTION! Mark 16:17-18 is dangerous, very dangerous. How does Sunday school address the passage to the minds of very young Bible students?

Mark 16:17 And these signs will follow those who believe: IN MY NAME they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.

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@pettytalk said
I understand all you say, but you have not addressed the main question I asked.

By addressing false preachers/charlatans, I was merely pointing out the clear and evident abuse of scripture by these phony miracle workers. The point was that if they have to fake it, it comes down to two alternatives: either they are not truly believers, or the scripture, Mark 16:17-18, is ...[text shortened]... ey will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwoBUl_Jbts

I reject your premise, the gifts and callings of God are from God, it is by the fruit of our lives we are to look for it doesn't say look at miracle workers and you'll find my followers, you are making a connection to prove a point that has nothing to do with the point of who belongs to God as true believers.

Is Jesus Christ in your life, the devils believe in Him so a simple acknowledgment is nothing, if He isn't your Lord and Savior, in your life changing you from the inside out, you are on the outside looking in.

Matthew 7:22-24
English Standard Version
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

In addition to that, even some who do miracles will be cast out into hell because Jesus is going to tell them, "I never knew you." If you are going to think you are a Christian because of the things you do and not Jesus Christ, you are relying on your activities, not the blood or the risen Savior I don't care what spiritual gifts or religious activity you are relying on to prove your worth before God.

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@kellyjay said
I reject your premise, the gifts and callings of God are from God, it is by the fruit of our lives we are to look for it doesn't say look at miracle workers and you'll find my followers, you are making a connection to prove a point that has nothing to do with the point of who belongs to God as true believers.

Is Jesus Christ in your life, the devils believe in Him so a si ...[text shortened]... t care what spiritual gifts or religious activity you are relying on to prove your worth before God.

Again, I know that better than you, I think.

Why do you engage in these silly exchanges in attempting to show the existence of God through 'intelligent design,' and then show your ignorance through the use of the cherry-picked scriptures, which have been inculcated in your naive mind by the unmasked wolves of the Christian religion?

Be a believer all you want, but don't try to justify your beliefs through science. Jesus never discussed, nor preached science. Therefore, neither should you.

If you do want to contest science matters, do it, but leave God out of the picture.

Faith and science have nothing in common, other than the fact that those who are spearheading in either subject are the real experts, and not just some silly amateurs like ourselves.

I really believe that you have personal doubts about your own faith, and are merely trying to hold on to dear life by the twists and turns you are attempting to put on mainstream science. But you are just splashing and wetting yourself in a little puddle which the stream has left behind.

The intelligent design needs no proof, as the proof exists already. What more proof do we need than ourselves? The human race, as a whole, is intelligent.

The resurrection? The dead coming back to life. Go ahead and tackle that very thing with science. Not even his close disciples believed Jesus would resurrect. Jesus had to prove it to them. Yet, they had witnessed the dead Lazarus being brought back to life, and others. They themselves were instructed to raise the dead.

Before his death Jesus instructed the 12.
These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ Heal the sick, RAISE THE DEAD, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

After his death Jesus instructed the 12 (11, minus Judas)
Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.

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@pettytalk said
Again, I know that better than you, I think.

Why do you engage in these silly exchanges in attempting to show the existence of God through 'intelligent design,' and then show your ignorance through the use of the cherry-picked scriptures, which have been inculcated in your naive mind by the unmasked wolves of the Christian religion?

Be a believer all you want, but don ...[text shortened]... ey will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ca-2FRsTx8

All truth belongs to God, science and faith are not opposed to each other, and the fact that you go there tells me you are clueless. The standard for what is true in science is a much lower bar than religion, science allows for change given new data or understanding, while depending on claims in religion some are either true or false, or we fail to grasp some claim properly.

You find what I bring up silly, stop responding to me, move on, go away. I don’t jump into your posts bragging about how much I know more than you and tell you what you should and should not write about. I spent over 20 years in R&D for CPU so process and design matters to me. I don’t care what you think I should write about you can please keep that to yourself!