Originally posted by roigam IIf Jesus were man and god, his sacrifice for us would not balance the perfect human life that Adam lost, or do you believe that Adam was a part of the trinity also.
That trinity keeps growing by leaps and bounds. Pretty soon there won't be room for our Heavenly Father.
In His wisdom God transfered the life of His first born son into the womb of Mary so h ...[text shortened]... all time and sat down at the right hand of God,
And as the Bible clearly says, Jesus was a man.
"IIf Jesus were man and god, his sacrifice for us would not balance the perfect human life that Adam lost, or do you believe that Adam was a part of the trinity also."
The perfect human life, you mean the one that sinned against God then blamed his wife?
That perfect human life?
No need to repeat debates we had about, I think, probably some six to eight years ago.
I answered your question.
Not waiting for JW approval.
I agree, so why did you answer my post? Anyway nothing in those couple scriptures states anything about the trinity and that it was supposedly mentioned by Jesus as a new teaching. It was never taught by anyone in the bible and was not adopted into the church until 400 years after Jesus death. And why was that? Because it was not a biblical teaching up till then.
Any historical literature on the trinity will say the same on that.
Originally posted by galveston75 I agree, so why did you answer my post? Anyway nothing in those couple scriptures states anything about the trinity and that it was supposedly mentioned by Jesus as a new teaching. It was never taught by anyone in the bible and was not adopted into the church until 400 years after Jesus death. And why was that? Because it was not a biblical teaching up till then.
Any historical literature on the trinity will say the same on that.
So clearly from your statements, one can conclude that if someone uses the word Trinity or believes in the concepts underlying the Trinity pertaining to God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, then that person cannot enter the Kingdom of God.
From what sonship says he believers that if one DOES NOT believe in the Trinity or underlyhing concepts then that person cannot enter the Kingdom.
Here we see the stupidity of church doctrine which cause people to loose their ability to reason and to see the truth that is contained in the teachings of Christ, the teachings which leads one to eternal life in the Kingdom of God. Neither you nor sonship is correct because Jesus Christ supports neither of the extreme positions which you both take.
Both of you should walk away from your churches, take a few years to read and digest what Jesus said and spend the rest of your lives simply DOING IT.
Originally posted by galveston75 Yes it is a fact. It would seem to a normal thinking person and knowing the love that both Jehovah and his son Jesus have for mankind, it would seem that if the trinity were the actual way that we are to understand their being and not in the monotheistic way that all the Jews and those before all the way to Adam them believed and understood their God to ...[text shortened]... try again with even just a few clear scriptures that show that this trinity was taught by Jesus?
When will people stop with the nonsense that people who believe in the trinity do not believe in a monotheistic God?
If you can't wrap your head around at least that, then one can only assume that you are willfully ignoring what we have to say.
You talk about truth and then willfully ignore and cherry pick around what is clearly laid out in the Bible. No, the word isn't there, but the concepts cannot be more clearly laid out for all to see.
Originally posted by Rajk999 So clearly from your statements, one can conclude that if someone uses the word Trinity or believes in the concepts underlying the Trinity pertaining to God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, then that person cannot enter the Kingdom of God.
From what sonship says he believers that if one DOES NOT believe in the Trinity or underlyhing concepts then that person c ...[text shortened]... a few years to read and digest what Jesus said and spend the rest of your lives simply DOING IT.
Originally posted by Suzianne When will people stop with the nonsense that people who believe in the trinity do not believe in a monotheistic God?
If you can't wrap your head around at least that, then one can only assume that you are willfully ignoring what we have to say.
You talk about truth and then willfully ignore and cherry pick around what is clearly laid out in the Bible. ...[text shortened]... cannot be more clearly laid out for all to see.
But you cannot let go of your man-made dogma.
Suzianne, is the Trinity 'clearly laid out in the Bible,' and if not, how do you defend it from a similar accusation of being a 'man-made dogma?'
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke Suzianne, is the Trinity 'clearly laid out in the Bible,' and if not, how do you defend it from a similar accusation of being a 'man-made dogma?'
Father, Son, Holy Spirit are in the Bible you can do a word search, it isn't like those words were secretly added.
Originally posted by galveston75 Yes it is a fact. It would seem to a normal thinking person and knowing the love that both Jehovah and his son Jesus have for mankind, it would seem that if the trinity were the actual way that we are to understand their being and not in the monotheistic way that all the Jews and those before all the way to Adam them believed and understood their God to ...[text shortened]... try again with even just a few clear scriptures that show that this trinity was taught by Jesus?
No analogy illustrates a point perfectly, and I think trying to apply one to the trinity is next to impossible in order to fully comprehend. I have family members that are JW and they have very strict rules about what they read and listen to (music and sermon wise), so I don't know if you will read the article or not. But if you do, the trinity is laid out in a very clear and concise way (as an analogy) which might help you to understand better.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Trinity.html
Jesus never once said he was God. What it means to you really isn't the issue. The truth of the Bible is the only issue.
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke Suzianne, is the Trinity 'clearly laid out in the Bible,' and if not, how do you defend it from a similar accusation of being a 'man-made dogma?'
Unlike the JWs, most Christian denominations draw their dogma directly from the Bible.
The JWs already had a dogma made up by their elders (the same dogma they use today, btw), way back when they still used the KJV, and they got tired of explaining why their dogma didn't match up with the Bible they were using, since the KJV has never supported their dogma. They commissioned some people they have since relabeled as "Bible scholars" to write their own Bible which miraculously supports their already-made-by-man dogma. Their dogma came way before their Bible.
To recap: Most Christian denominations: Bible >>> dogma
The JWs: Dogma >>> Bible
Originally posted by Suzianne Unlike the JWs, most Christian denominations draw their dogma directly from the Bible.
The JWs already had a dogma made up by their elders (the same dogma they use today, btw), way back when they still used the KJV, and they got tired of explaining why their dogma didn't match up with the Bible they were using, since the KJV has never supported their dog ...[text shortened]... ons: Bible >>> dogma
The JWs: Dogma >>> Bible
I think it's clear exactly what they're up to.
Perhaps you might seriously consider legally changing your name to Suzzianne Conway! it would be rather fitting given your propensity for outlandish claims. 😵
Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke Did my reply leave you speechless old chap?
Odd, I responded on my phone.
Those three words, if you cannot see them for who they are, if I were you I'd ask God for
eyes to see. I looks like your willfully blind here, and that is a darkness you'll never reason
yourself out of.
Mt 27:46
03 Feb '17 03:49
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