Originally posted by karoly aczel
Well I think it was josephw of all people who made the point somewhere else that everyone thinks they are right. They justify their actions through the prism of their own sight.

I would like to propose the power of thought as being much more powerful than anyone around here is giving it credit for.
I want to empower people but I cant. They can only ...[text shortened]... . A lot of my ideas stem directly from the oldest religious texts in the world - The Upanishads.

Listen, I and everyone else is here are no different than you including josephw. We are all
walking out our lives as we believe is best, the things that come out of our mouths here
are what is in our hearts. For me I don't believe a self-help religion is enough to do the real
change that is required within us, water will never rise upon its source, it will go up till its
level with it, like us we can only go as far as our human abilities and plans can take us.

I do believe God, all knowing, all powerful, and is love has a better way than any we can
come up on our own. I believe God's view is much better than ours too, being One who is
the beginning, and the end isn't limited as we are. His way is the only one we should
be looking for, I know we act as we see fit, but if we don't go to Him we will remain in our
own ways not His. So there are the ways that seem right to us, but the end is death, and
all of this takes place while God has made a way for us.

I see that many people even within Christianity, desire to have power over others and to
put themselves under another human being. What that means is that we cannot trust
man, we need to trust God and look to Him, because man will pervert everything he
touches. Don't allow another human to stand between you and God, Jesus is the way not
some man made denomination or religion.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Listen, I and everyone else is here are no different than you including josephw. We are all
walking out our lives as we believe is best, the things that come out of our mouths here
are what is in our hearts. For me I don't believe a self-help religion is enough to do the real
change that is required within us, water will never rise upon its source, it wi ...[text shortened]... uman to stand between you and God, Jesus is the way not
some man made denomination or religion.

You are confusing the horse with the rider.
(Horse=body)
(rider=self)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
You are confusing the horse with the rider.
(Horse=body)
(rider=self)

Explain your point please, I do like your analogy, but don't want to assume what you mean.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Explain your point please, I do like your analogy, but don't want to assume what you mean.

Meanwhile, explain what the analogy meant for you, please?

For me, in involves reductionism, determinism and free will. We don't have very much control, but our little bit that we offer is crucial.

Originally posted by apathist
Meanwhile, explain what the analogy meant for you, please?

For me, in involves reductionism, determinism and free will. We don't have very much control, but our little bit that we offer is crucial.

I'd like to wait till he responds.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'd like to wait till he responds.

So the body is the chariot of the soul or spirit.
We are the spirit , the mind is the power that animates the body, which is like the "carrier" of the soul.
We are not "pieces of meat" . Sure we may be attached to the flesh but nowhere in the body can we identify ourselves.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
So the body is the chariot of the soul or spirit.
We are the spirit , the mind is the power that animates the body, which is like the "carrier" of the soul.
We are not "pieces of meat" . Sure we may be attached to the flesh but nowhere in the body can we identify ourselves.

We are much more than pieces of meat, but when it was brought up that the spiritual side
of life could be ignored that was all that was left. Since we are more than the flesh and
blood our bodies have to only see to the physical leaves a huge part of our lives uncared
for.

Originally posted by KellyJay to karoly aczel
[b]We are much more than pieces of meat, but when it was brought up that the spiritual side of life could be ignored that was all that was left.

And yet when karoly azcel talked about wanting a secular approach to his schizophrenia by mental health professionals you likened him to "a piece of meat that walks and talks".

How can someone like karoly azcel - who so clearly has a "spiritual side of life" - wanting a secular approach to his schizophrenia be characterized as him ignoring the spiritual side of life?

If he were a Christian seeking a secular approach to his schizophrenia by mental health professionals would you have likened him to "a piece of meat that walks and talks"?

Originally posted by FMF
And yet when karoly azcel talked about wanting a secular approach to his schizophrenia by mental health professionals you likened him to "a piece of meat that walks and talks".

How can someone like karoly azcel - who so clearly has a "spiritual side of life" - wanting a secular approach to his schizophrenia be characterized as him ignoring the spiritual sid ...[text shortened]... ntal health professionals would you have likened him to "a piece of meat that walks and talks"?

Are you so full of yourself that you think that all this actually neuters what KJ just said by way of explanation of what you have since taken and blown up all out of proportion?

Originally posted by Suzianne
Are you so full of yourself that you think that all this actually neuters what KJ just said by way of explanation of what you have since taken and blown up all out of proportion?

Well it's a straight forward question to KellyJay about what he said to karoly azcel. The only way that KellyJay can end up being "neutered", as you put it, is if he doesn't answer it.

Originally posted by FMF
Well it's a straight forward question to KellyJay about what he said to karoly azcel. The only way that KellyJay can end up being "neutered", as you put it, is if he doesn't answer it.

So is that a "yes" or a "no"?

Originally posted by Suzianne
So is that a "yes" or a "no"?

Well, we await KellyJay's answer. The meaning of my question to him is crystal clear. If you believe he did not describe "secular" people as ""pieces of meat that walk and talk" and then later contradict himself, then that is your prerogative I suppose.

Originally posted by FMF
Well, we await KellyJay's answer. The meaning of my question to him is crystal clear. If you believe he did [b]not describe "secular" people as ""pieces of meat that walk and talk" and then later contradict himself, then that is your prerogative I suppose.[/b]

I'm asking YOU if that is a "yes" or if it's a "no". If you're going to continue to dodge, just say so.

The meaning of my question is even more clear than yours, hidden as yours is with the self-consuming desire to see him made a fool of.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I'm asking YOU if that is a "yes" or if it's a "no". If you're going to continue to dodge, just say so.

The meaning of my question is even more clear than yours, hidden as yours is with the self-consuming desire to see him made a fool of.

You asked me if my point blank question to KellyJay - to my way of thinking - "neuters" him, and I replied no and that what I think might be said to "neuter" him is his inability to answer the question. I didn't dodge your question at all. I gave my answer and I explained myself too.