Originally posted by FMF
What do you mean "that is not me"? You said "If I did not believe in God, what difference would good works do for me? I would live for myself, look out for #1." Now you claim the "I" was somebody else?

That is not me anymore..I am drastically different. And I am using that as an example of many "natural" men.
The good works you speak of are still self centered.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Why would they "need" to be done? If I did not believe in God, what difference would good works do for me? I would live for myself, look out for #1.

You need the threat of magic being used against you in order to
force you to live a good life? That's sad. But perhaps a reason to
keep religion; to make sociopaths behave themselves.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The good works you speak of are still self centered.

Don't be silly. The things I spoke of are demonstrably less "self-centred" than your fixation on imagined personal salvation and your own immortality.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
You need the threat of magic being used against you in order to
force you to live a good life? That's sad. But perhaps a reason to
keep religion; to make sociopaths behave themselves.

It's not magic, nor am I swayed by the threat. I am swayed by the love of God.

Originally posted by Rajk999
TO be born again is to be changed in heart and mind.

Christ spoke or being born again of water and of the spirit. To be born again is no guarantee that the person will enter into Gods Kingdom as some can and do fall away as clearly stated, even though they formerly received the Holy Spirit etc.

I'll ask again.

Changed in the heart in mind, as in what does that mean? You repent, so it
is just you stop doing bad stuff and do good, OR you get a make over by
God who changes you completely? What do you mean, is it something else
completely?
Kelly

Originally posted by checkbaiter
It's not magic, nor am I swayed by the threat. I am swayed by the love of God.

So without the love of God you would do evil?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
So without the love of God you would do evil?

Define evil.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
So without the love of God you would do evil?

Sure, just like you.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Sure, just like you.

What you know about me to say that?

We are discussing your statement that without your god you would not do good things.

Originally posted by josephw
Define evil.

Get a dictionary.

Originally posted by josephw
Define evil.

The good you ought to do and you know you need to do but you don't do it!

Originally posted by checkbaiter
It's not magic, nor am I swayed by the threat. I am swayed by the love of God.

"What do you mean? Tha's jus' crazy talk!"

Funny how the cynics profess sterling, moral qualities for themselves, even without God, and yet they then claim believers are all self-obsessed and moved by fear and the promise of personal benefit. They simply cannot grok the divine power of love.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I read your thread exchange with Rajk and disagree with you both. There is no such thing as good works done on one's own, and they could not please God.
After peeling back the layers, you will find that the "good works" of man are always selfish.
Only God is good.
After receiving the Lord Jesus, being born again, good works are a byproduct of that ...[text shortened]... d by love for God.
Under no circumstances do good works earn anything, other than feed the ego.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Get a dictionary.

Cop out!

Originally posted by josephw
Cop out!

What do you mean by "cop"?