Originally posted by KellyJay
So without Jesus' saving grace on their lives, good works can get
someone in good with God?
Kelly

ALL men has received the saving grace of Christ. Here is what the Bible says:

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Did you understand that? The saving grace of God has appeared to ALL MEN. Surely that does not mean that all men know of Christ? All men received the saving grace of Christ, and that happened at the death and resurrection of Christ... ALL OF MANKIND RECEIVED THE SAVING GRACE OF CHRIST AT THAT POINT.

So what gives eternal life is what people do after. Those who live righteously in the spirit will get eternal life and those who live sinfully in the flesh will get death.

Thus far all this talk of personal relationship with Christ you have been unable to show supporting references Also those who accept Christ automatically are given Gods spirit again is not supported in the Bible. Your equating Christians with those is the spirit and nonChristians with those in the flesh again is not supported in the Bible.

Originally posted by Rajk999
ALL men has received the saving grace of Christ. Here is what the Bible says:

[b]Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Did you understand that? The saving grace of God has appeared to ALL MEN. Surely that does not mean that all men know of Christ? All men received the saving grace of Christ, and that happ ...[text shortened]... ose is the spirit and nonChristians with those in the flesh again is not supported in the Bible.[/b]

Yes, all can be saved, are you saying all are no matter what?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yes, all can be saved, are you saying all are no matter what?
Kelly

NO. Read what I wrote again.

All have received the grace of God because of Christ death and resurrection. The other part of ones eternal life is their acceptance of Christ and his commandments ie living righteously.

All men do not live righteously before God.

Originally posted by Rajk999
NO. Read what I wrote again.

All have received the grace of God because of Christ death and resurrection. The other part of ones eternal life is their acceptance of Christ and his commandments ie living righteously.

All men do not live righteously before God.

Well you are not making a clear case, so Christ clean the slate and now
all we have to do is not be bad, but good?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Well you are not making a clear case, so Christ clean the slate and now
all we have to do is not be bad, but good?
Kelly

Christ spent his entire ministry talking at length about how to 'not to be bad, but good' as you call it and you decry that?

Much of the so called 'virtues' you extol is not even biblical, .. 'personal relationship' .. no such thing or at best your definition cannot be supported.

Calling those who you think did not accept Christ, those in the flesh and further saying that those people cannot please God because they are in the flesh. Pauls said nothing of the sort. What Paul said is that those in the flesh are those who commit sin and sin is not pleasing to God. Those who do righteousness have Gods spirit in them and they please God.

Yes, righteous living according to the doctrine and commandments of Christ is all that is required. It demonstrates that a person has BOTH accepted Christ and that they are obedient to his commandments.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ spent his entire ministry talking at length about how to 'not to be bad, but good' as you call it and you decry that?

Much of the so called 'virtues' you extol is not even biblical, .. 'personal relationship' .. no such thing or at best your definition cannot be supported.

Calling those who you think did not accept Christ, those in the flesh and ...[text shortened]... onstrates that a person has BOTH accepted Christ and that they are obedient to his commandments.

I'm not decrying it, but we were to be good before he died and rose from the
grave were we not? So Jesus died for a reset that changes nothing? We are
to be good and not bad, and that is enough be okay with God, again? I
don't see anyone being good enough on our own, yet you do I guess.

A personal relationship means God lives in us, leading and guiding us, you
do not have the Spirit of God within you?
Kelly