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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    09 Jun '17 18:49
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/09/jeremy-corbyn-prime-minister-labour

    "Jeremy Corbyn has caused a sensation – he would make a fine prime minister.
    This was not about Tory failure. If Labour had offered the same old
    stale, technocratic centrism it would have faced an absolute drubbing."
    --Owen Jones

    "But I came to believe that, yes, indeed Labour was heading for a terrible defeat
    that would crush all the things I believed in. That’s what all the polling, byelections
    and the local elections seemed to say. I thought people had made their minds up
    about Corbyn, however unfairly, and their opinion just wouldn’t shift.
    I wasn’t a bit wrong, or slightly wrong, or mostly wrong, but totally wrong."
    --Owen Jones
  2. Stargazing
    Joined
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    09 Jun '17 21:034 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/09/jeremy-corbyn-prime-minister-labour

    "Jeremy Corbyn has caused a sensation – he would make a fine prime minister.
    This was not about Tory failure. If Labour had offered the same old
    stale, technocratic centrism it would have faced an absolute drubbing."
    --Owen Jones

    "But I came to believe that ...[text shortened]... t.
    I wasn’t a bit wrong, or slightly wrong, or mostly wrong, but totally wrong."
    --Owen Jones
    His "achievement" needs to be considered with considerable sobriety, political competitive context and fiscal realism.

    Firstly, well done to him. He singlehandedly took advantage of the Tories complancancy and arrogance.

    However, we should acknowledge that the man is in opposition with little chance of obtaining the premiership. He is an ideologue with a platform and little fiscal accountability past the standard 9 minute interview, and is subsequently free to indulge his political fantasies and court a generation of idealistic millennials. In other words he can more or less say what he wants and be indulge his passions without recourse.

    A cursory glance over the Labour manifesto reveals it as the economic fairytale it is.
  3. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
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    09 Jun '17 22:162 edits
    Everything Corbyn says is historically correct.

    So, if there's a financial problem with his plans, then the financial markets are geared against history and reality.
    And that's what then needs changing.

    Obviously, considering the majority of people see him as some sort of left-wing radical (which only proves how powerful the images that the main stream political parties and media have been pushing for the last 40 years are), the chances of him actually achieving anything are remote (even if he was in power).

    But diplomacy as opposed to war.
    The ANC as opposed to Apartheid.
    Nukes being a weapon against civilians.
    Etc. Etc.
    All his positions are actually humane and constructive.

    Quite refreshing.
  4. Standard memberfinnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
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    09 Jun '17 22:486 edits
    Originally posted by divegeester
    His "achievement" needs to be considered with considerable sobriety, political competitive context and fiscal realism.

    Firstly, well done to him. He singlehandedly took advantage of the Tories complancancy and arrogance.

    However, we should acknowledge that the man is in opposition with little chance of obtaining the premiership. He is an ideologu ...[text shortened]... urse.

    A cursory glance over the Labour manifesto reveals it as the economic fairytale it is.
    Here's a letter signed by over 100 (maybe 129 - I can't be bothered counting) economists backing Corbyn's manifesto and attacking Tory austerity.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/jun/03/the-big-issue-labour-manifesto-what-economy-needs

    What you imagine you can achieve with a cursory glance is hard to envisage but Labour has been engaged in discussions with economists over a number of years and exploring new aproaches based on serious academic research. There has not only been a debate but also frequent arguments, with big names like Pikketty sometimes throwing their dummies out of the pram before stepping back into the conversation.

    One thing Labour is NOT DOING under Corbyn is leaning on old ideologies. That is what the Tories and the mass media are doing. And it seems that you, with your cursory glances, are satisfied with your glib, media induced mantras, unable to even engage in the debate beyond a passing slogan.

    Fact is that the manifesto is still too "conservative" and modest in its promises. The public is simply too terrified by the Tory lies telling them that a national budget in a country with its own currency is like an old lady's weekly budget. Nonsense of course. Absolutely illiterate claptrap. The reality is that the economy which rescued the banking system with hundred of billions of pounds is not going to have any difficulty absorbing Labour's proposals for productive investment.

    Try these numbers for the UK: "Last December, the National Audit Office published a second report into the costs of the bail-out. That report concluded: The scale of the support currently provided to UK banks has fallen from a peak of £955bn to £512bn, but the amount of cash currently borrowed by the government to support banks has risen by £7bn [to a total of £124bn] since December 2009. But the NAO also concluded that costs would continue for years to come. The economist Tim Congdon told the BBC today that the British state will make a profit out of its investment in the banks." https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2011/sep/12/reality-check-banking-bailout

    Tell us where that £955bn came from - who did we borrow it from - where was it before we spent it? That's 955 BILLION pounds.

    You know nothing. That should make you hestitate before being so opinionated. Sadly not.
  5. SubscriberWajoma
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    10 Jun '17 00:10
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Here's a letter signed by over 100 (maybe 129 - I can't be bothered counting) economists backing Corbyn's manifesto and attacking Tory austerity.

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/jun/03/the-big-issue-labour-manifesto-what-economy-needs

    What you imagine you can achieve with a cursory glance is hard to envisage but Labour has been engaged in disc ...[text shortened]... ds.

    You know nothing. That should make you hestitate before being so opinionated. Sadly not.
    Ironic that the 'letter' amounts to a passing slogan.
  6. Stargazing
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    10 Jun '17 06:58
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Here's a letter signed by over 100 (maybe 129 - I can't be bothered counting) economists backing Corbyn's manifesto and attacking Tory austerity.
    A letter signed by a hundred Guardian readers... wow, I guess you must be right 🙄
  7. Stargazing
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    10 Jun '17 07:00
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Everything Corbyn says is historically correct.
    What on earth are you on about.
  8. Joined
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    10 Jun '17 07:59
    Originally posted by divegeester
    What on earth are you on about.
    He was correct in ditching Abbott ,that's for sure !
  9. Standard membershavixmir
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    10 Jun '17 09:06
    Originally posted by divegeester
    What on earth are you on about.
    Read the examples I gave below that statement.
    Corbyn's positions have repeatedly been vindicated over the decades.
  10. Germany
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    10 Jun '17 10:02
    Originally posted by divegeester
    His "achievement" needs to be considered with considerable sobriety, political competitive context and fiscal realism.

    Firstly, well done to him. He singlehandedly took advantage of the Tories complancancy and arrogance.

    However, we should acknowledge that the man is in opposition with little chance of obtaining the premiership. He is an ideologu ...[text shortened]... urse.

    A cursory glance over the Labour manifesto reveals it as the economic fairytale it is.
    The single most important reason why the U.K. is less wealthy than its Nordic neighbours is the undertaxation of wealthy individuals in the U.K. That Corbyn seeks to address this long-standing problem in the U.K. economy is commendable and sound economic and fiscal policy.
  11. Joined
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    10 Jun '17 11:07
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    The single most important reason why the U.K. is less wealthy than its Nordic neighbours is the undertaxation of wealthy individuals in the U.K. That Corbyn seeks to address this long-standing problem in the U.K. economy is commendable and sound economic and fiscal policy.
    If you base per capita population size ,Norway is 8th $ 70.666 up 2%.
    The " Nordic countries " more wealthy than the UK are... ?
    Are you reading from the " Dianne Abbott maths tutorial " ,the one that gives the London police £30 a year in wages ?
  12. Germany
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    10 Jun '17 12:00
    Originally posted by phil3000
    If you base per capita population size ,Norway is 8th $ 70.666 up 2%.
    The " Nordic countries " more wealthy than the UK are... ?
    Are you reading from the " Dianne Abbott maths tutorial " ,the one that gives the London police £30 a year in wages ?
    All Nordic countries are wealthier than the U.K.

    I didn't say that by "wealthy" I meant GDP per capita (I am talking about more general measures of wealth i.e. the standard of living) although as it happens, Norway's GDP per capita is about 75% higher than that of the U.K.
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
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    10 Jun '17 12:11
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Everything Corbyn says is historically correct.

    So, if there's a financial problem with his plans, then the financial markets are geared against history and reality.
    And that's what then needs changing.

    Obviously, considering the majority of people see him as some sort of left-wing radical (which only proves how powerful the images that the main st ...[text shortened]... ilians.
    Etc. Etc.
    All his positions are actually humane and constructive.

    Quite refreshing.
    Here's what the Clinton wing of the Democratic Party thinks of Corbyn: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/09/jeremy-corbyn-west-nato-russia-215242
  14. Joined
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    10 Jun '17 12:12
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    All Nordic countries are wealthier than the U.K.

    I didn't say that by "wealthy" I meant GDP per capita (I am talking about more general measures of wealth i.e. the standard of living) although as it happens, Norway's GDP per capita is about 75% higher than that of the U.K.
    Changing the goal posts a bit here ,are we not ?
    Incidentally ,Norway is not a member of the EU .
  15. Joined
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    10 Jun '17 13:53
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Here's what the Clinton wing of the Democratic Party thinks of Corbyn: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/09/jeremy-corbyn-west-nato-russia-215242
    So the right wing of USA politics is scared of Corbyn, while the extreme right wing which is frothing at the mouth at him and the left wing is barely existent since Obama's exit. Big news...
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