38d
@rajk999 saidThe way to test the truth of this statement is to look at the countries that were never colonized. And then realize that NONE of these countries WISH that had been colonized:
- Colonialism was good thing. It helped poor countries to rise up out of underdevelopment. The colonial powers built infrastructure, assisted with government and provided technical expertise in all sectors. Its good. Many countries after breaking free of the colonists have gone into the gutter, is now rife will corruption, unproductive, GDP is falling and the country reverts into poverty.
Thailand
China
Japan
Korea
Nepal
Afghanistan
Iran
Turkey
Ethiopia
Saudi Arabia
Some of these countries have been invaded (multiple times!), some have done better, some worse. But none of them wished for colonialism.
Colonialism often decimated the native population. And the legacy of colonialism was often to hamstringing the development of strong, enlightened native leaders - which has lead to chaos when the colonizing power eventually withdrew. But that was a created weakness.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-never-colonized
38d
@rajk999 saidYou can stop with this BS right here. EVERY colonial power claims this and it is ALWAYS wrong.
Just a few points :
- Palestinians never owned the land of Palestine. It was a British territory... so was not 'their' land.
Palestinians have ALWAYS owned the land of Palestine - no matter what foreign power was occupying them at the time - Ottomans, British, whomever.
700,000 Palestinians were moved OUT of their homes where they had lived for generations to make way for European Jews who wanted a colony THERE. That was 100% wrong and should never have happened. But it did happen.
So now - what's next? Fixing it is what's next.
- Joined
- 09 Sep 10
- Moves
- 2501
@spruce112358
Get a grip on reality 🙄
Countries come and go and people get conquered.
Before Palestinian people were there, someone else owned it. And before that, someone else owned it.
How far back do you want to go? When does it end?
Even wikipedia says Israel predates Palestine by 1000 years
The entire history of the human race is based on conquest and conquering and you weak liberals think you can end that? 🤣
Good luck.
38d
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@rajk999 saidThe answer to Islamic extremism is to engage and support Islamic NON-extremism.
- Islamic countries breed extremists and these groups form themselves into terror cells. The more famous ones are Boko Haram, Taliban, Hamas, Hexbollah, Houthi and several others. These groups have killed by the millions and displaced tens of millions of people. The small ones are growing in European countries and they are causing havoc. Maybe you need to research this. T ...[text shortened]... eeps them at bay. They are dangerous and people who ignore these extremists will live to regret it.
I have met and worked with many Muslims - always absolutely delightful people. I've had spirited discussions about Islam and its tenets in Istanbul, Beirut, Amman, Indonesia - all over. I have always found Muslims to be fun to talk with - polite, with a wonderful sense of humor and irony.
No offense to any Israelis present, but I sometimes find them to be more harsh. More strident. But my neighbors here in the US are Israeli, and they are fine. Be that as it may.
There are bad Islamic actors, but killing the children of good Palestinians will do NOTHING to check them - and may well turn some good Muslims bad. That's a very counter-productive and stupid approach.
38d
@fartacus saidPalestinians have to be able to vote in their own country. I don't care if that's Israel or a Palestinian state.
@spruce112358
Get a grip on reality 🙄
Countries come and go and people get conquered.
Before Palestinian people were there, someone else owned it. And before that, someone else owned it.
How far back do you want to go? When does it end?
Even wikipedia says Israel predates Palestine by 1000 years
The entire history of the human race is based on conquest and conquering and you weak liberals think you can end that? 🤣
Good luck.
Palestinians (including refugees) can be fully incorporated in Israel and send representatives to the Knesset (One State).
Or the 1967 borders can be restored, the Israeli WB settlers returned, let the Palestinian refugees come home, the blockade can be ended, and a road can be cut connecting Gaza to the West Bank to make a new state called 'Palestine.' (Two State)
It's immaterial to me which solution we go for and not my call.
But Palestinians have to be able to vote for the representatives that control their lives - which they cannot presently do.
38d
@spruce112358 saidYou do not understand how things work.
You can stop with this BS right here. EVERY colonial power claims this and it is ALWAYS wrong.
Palestinians have ALWAYS owned the land of Palestine - no matter what foreign power was occupying them at the time - Ottomans, British, whomever.
700,000 Palestinians were moved OUT of their homes where they had lived for generations to make way for European Jews who want ...[text shortened]... nd should never have happened. But it did happen.
So now - what's next? Fixing it is what's next.
How does a specific group own the land.
Were they the governing authority? NO
Were they sole owners of land? NO
The truth is that there were many owners of land in Palestine. There were Jews, Arabs, Spanish and other Europeans and even Chinese. Arabs own the largest share but they did not and never did run the country.
There is nothing to fix. It is a single state region with Israel in charge.
38d
@spruce112358 saidPost colonialism period started around 1950 ish. These were all nations wallowing in poverty. Japan and China came out of it. Some like Ethiopia are at the bottom of the barrel.
The way to test the truth of this statement is to look at the countries that were never colonized. And then realize that NONE of these countries WISH that had been colonized:
Thailand
China
Japan
Korea
Nepal
Afghanistan
Iran
Turkey
Ethiopia
Saudi Arabia
Some of these countries have been invaded (multiple times!), some have done better, some worse. But none ...[text shortened]... a created weakness.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-never-colonized
I can tell you in my area the places that still are under the British or US are Puerto Rico, Cayman Islands, US Virgin Islands. All are faring better than the rest of the Caribbean.
38d
@spruce112358 saidThats their fault. They wanted "Death to Jews".
But Palestinians have to be able to vote for the representatives that control their lives - which they cannot presently do.
They voted in Hamas which spoke their language.
They are happy.
You think they are not happy.
You are wrong.
38d
@spruce112358 saidAll this is irrelevant and childish. There are nice serial killes, rapists, murderers and pedophiles. They are just ordinary people, and they can be very nice. Their true colours shine through sooner or later. Just like Islamic extremists.
The answer to Islamic extremism is to engage and support Islamic NON-extremism.
I have met and worked with many Muslims - always absolutely delightful people. I've had spirited discussions about Islam and its tenets in Istanbul, Beirut, Amman, Indonesia - all over. I have always found Muslims to be fun to talk with - polite, with a wonderful sense of humor and irony. ...[text shortened]... hem - and may well turn some good Muslims bad. That's a very counter-productive and stupid approach.
38d
1 edit
@spruce112358 saidYou are saying Palestinians want 2-states. Surveys done very recently after Oct 7th attack on Israel, revealed that the people of Gaza believe the following:
Palestinians have to be able to vote in their own country. I don't care if that's Israel or a Palestinian state.
Palestinians (including refugees) can be fully incorporated in Israel and send representatives to the Knesset (One State).
Or the 1967 borders can be restored, the Israeli WB settlers returned, let the Palestinian refugees come home, the blockade can b ...[text shortened]... o be able to vote for the representatives that control their lives - which they cannot presently do.
- Hamas will win this war
- Palestinians will gain control over all of Palestine
- There is going to be no 2-state solution.
Palestininians can vote in Israel as long as they are resident there.
38d
@spruce112358 saidIsrael is not a colony.
You can stop with this BS right here. EVERY colonial power claims this and it is ALWAYS wrong.
Palestinians have ALWAYS owned the land of Palestine - no matter what foreign power was occupying them at the time - Ottomans, British, whomever.
700,000 Palestinians were moved OUT of their homes where they had lived for generations to make way for European Jews who want ...[text shortened]... nd should never have happened. But it did happen.
So now - what's next? Fixing it is what's next.
38d
@rajk999 saidPalestinians have never voted for 'death to Jews.' The Palestinian people have never held a referendum on whether to accept or reject any of Hamas' Charters. The Hamas Charter no more represents the Palestinian people than a plank from the Republican platform or white paper from a think tank represents the United States.
Thats their fault. They wanted "Death to Jews".
They voted in Hamas which spoke their language.
They are happy.
You think they are not happy.
You are wrong.
The latest Hamas Charter of 2017, which has also never been voted on and is not the law of the land anywhere, is nonetheless clear: Hamas wants regime change, not death to Jews.
Hamas was elected in 2006 in both Gaza and the WB but Israel and the US maneuvered to keep Fatah in power in the WB.
In 2008 Hamas offered to make peace on the basis of the 1967 borders, dropping the siege, etc. Very reasonable conditions.
Israel rejected these terms out of hand without discussion. They continued their siege of Gaza for another 16 years.
Of note, one of the reasons Hamas gained votes in spite of their stance was because Fatah, after renouncing violence as part of the Oslo Peace Accords, was given essentially nothing.
So the lesson when dealing with Israel is: renouncing violence brings you nothing, and proposing peace brings you nothing.
What's left but war?
38d
@rajk999 saidI find it improbable that an accurate poll can be conducted in Gaza.
You are saying Palestinians want 2-states. Surveys done very recently after Oct 7th attack on Israel, revealed that the people of Gaza believe the following:
- Hamas will win this war
- Palestinians will gain control over all of Palestine
- There is going to be no 2-state solution.
Palestininians can vote in Israel as long as they are resident there.
38d
@athousandyoung saidIsrael has achieved political independence but has not resolved the issues from its colonial past. It is stuck behaving like a colony of recent migrants in a hostile territory, not a nation.
Israel is not a colony.
I think it's an appropriate descriptor. But then I think Taiwan is a 'country' and not a 'wayward province.'