Originally posted by SeitseOriginally posted by Seitse
Eventually, we all end up stepping into the dark side.
"Eventually, we all end up stepping into the dark side."
Correction: 'Eventually", some of us "end up stepping into the dark side."
Footnote: Thread 165382 (4th Post)
Originally posted by Red NightOriginally posted by Landisqueen170 Thread 164917 (Page 2)
he/she made that post before he/she made the posts here in the GF.
Seems to be the same theme across all of his/her posts: why are people so mean on here?
"So many of these posts & threads make me just plain sad. I don't get the name-calling, the insults and the anger. A great majority of us, I would venture to say, struggle with questions of faith and religion...does any of us really know the answers to these really difficult questions? I don't think so. That is where "faith" comes in. By definition, it means trusting and believing in something or someone without actual proof. You either accept this. Or you don't. But honestly, there can never be any room in a healthy debate or discussion for mean-spiritness or a lack of respect towards others' viewpoints."
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Red, my view is that this second public forum post legitimately focuses on lowered standards of civility in this site's spirituality forum.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI think I was just saying that the post you referenced preceded the pompous "Adieu" post in the GF in terms of the date posted.
Originally posted by Landisqueen170 Thread 164917 (Page 2)
"So many of these posts & threads make me just plain sad. I don't get the name-calling, the insults and the anger. A great majority of us, I would venture to say, struggle with questions of faith and religion...does any of us really know the answers to these really difficul ...[text shortened]... um post legitimately focuses on lowered standards of civility in this site's spirituality forum.
The spirituality forum has always been an ugly place.
Originally posted by Red NightOriginally posted by mwmiller (Page 1)
I think I was just saying that the post you referenced preceded the pompous "Adieu" post in the GF in terms of the date posted.
The spirituality forum has always been an ugly place.
"The GF has always been a place to just hang out if you don't have anything better to do. This is where to come if you are looking for drama, crudeness, bullying and other forms of stupidity. Everyone is welcome here, but do not expect too much.
If you are looking for an intelligent or serious exchange you should probably look somewhere else. I have for many years considered the GF the RHP litter box. Members come here and sling lots of 'stuff' around. It gets buried eventually, and then when things get boring someone digs it back up again and plays with it some more.
Things don't change very much here in the GF, it's pretty much the same game with different players over time, but it's actually nice to have it. It helps keep the group amused and in one location!
There can be an occasional interesting thread in the GF but you will have to look hard to find it sometimes."
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Red, mwmiller certainly agrees. My own view since joining RHP in July, 2007, is that the standards of civility have devolved in recent years.
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI think the GF has always been pretty rough. Prior to your joining, during the hey day of bullying there were a number of Forum Wars.
My own view since joining RHP in July, 2007, is that the standards of civility have devolved in recent years.
The first pitted one group of bullies led by SJ247, Seitse, and Suzianne faced off against a second group led by Xanthos, Crowley, and Darvlay (amongst others)
Into that mix came TSM led by myself, Cash, Raven, Skeeter, Ice Cold, Mokko, and others. We took on both groups of bad boys (and girls) and won the Wreck Wars.
Frankly there was little or no civility on either side during the Forum Wars and an ever decreasing amount on the side of TSM. In fact, one of the reasons I backed off on our efforts to reform the forum after we had won the Wreck War was that I saw TSM 'devolving' into an organization that was little better than the bullies we opposed.
Part of that was the arrival of more and more TSM members like Divegeester who were not interested in making the forums a better place and were more interested in making a name as a wreck-seeking head-hunter. And also partially just the reality that one cannot lie down with dogs and not get fleas.
Once I left, Russ immediately reinstated the wreck system. That may be what you see as the devolution of the forums.
As far as the forums are concerned, they are much more civil then when I got here and began the now famous Love Your Neighbor AND Yourself Campaign. The site no longer allows the exceptionally racist black-faced acts that offended so many on both sides and the site did away with the infamous Meat Opponents forum which was a haven for pedophiles.
Originally posted by Red NightOriginally posted by Red Night
I think the GF has always been pretty rough. Prior to your joining, during the hey day of bullying there were a number of Forum Wars.
The first pitted one group of bullies led by SJ247, Seitse, and Suzianne faced off against a second group led by Xanthos, Crowley, and Darvlay (amongst others)
Into that mix came TSM led by myself, Cash, Raven, Skeeter, ...[text shortened]... sides and the site did away with the infamous Meat Opponents forum which was a haven for pedophiles.
"I think the GF has always been pretty rough. Prior to your joining, during the hey day of bullying there were a number of Forum Wars."
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As previously noted, mwmiller [who joined in February, 2001, at the inception of Red Hot Pawn] attests to your observation on page one of this thread.
Originally posted by Red Night
"Frankly there was little or no civility on either side during the Forum Wars and an ever decreasing amount on the side of TSM. In fact, one of the reasons I backed off on our efforts to reform the forum after we had won the Wreck War was that I saw TSM 'devolving' into an organization that was little better than the bullies we opposed.
Part of that was the arrival of more and more TSM members like Divegeester who were not interested in making the forums a better place and were more interested in making a name as a wreck-seeking head-hunter. And also partially just the reality that one cannot lie down with dogs and not get fleas."
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Little has changed since then until now. Yes, I fully agree with your assessment. Questions: a) Do unhappy people with low self esteem and unresolved acceptance of authority issues detest people who are comfortable and secure within their own skin? b) And was it ever thus?
Originally posted by Grampy Bobbythat is a deep question. I don't know and I do not think the issues that affect the forums are all that complex.
Little has changed since then until now. Yes, I fully agree with your assessment. Questions: a) Do unhappy people with low self esteem and unresolved acceptance of authority issues detest people who are comfortable and secure within their own skin? b) And was it ever thus?[/b]
I think on some level the attempt to combine social media with chess on a fully anonymous basis was bound to lead to this.
The site was always torn between the different visions of the two founders.
In my opinion, the site should have stuck with chess and left out the whole social media component.
Obviously, if we go back to 2006 when Yasser Serawein showed up to check the place out with the intention of buying subscriptions for 50 or more young players he was coaching only to be driven off in less than a day by the bullies we can see how the two worlds; unfettered social media 'banter' and serious chess are totally incompatible, at least here in the US.
31 Aug 15
Originally posted by Red NightForum problems went back a little further than that. Shortly after the original forum was added to the site it didn't take long to get out of hand. Russ and Chris made attempts to maintain a civil atmosphere.
I think the GF has always been pretty rough. Prior to your joining, during the hey day of bullying there were a number of Forum Wars.
The first pitted one group of bullies led by SJ247, Seitse, and Suzianne faced off against a second group led by Xanthos, Crowley, and Darvlay (amongst others)
It was a lost cause for two people to try and keep it peaceful on a 24/7 site, so the forum was completely shut down for a few weeks. When it came back online again it came with moderators. From that point until the present the means used to deal with problems within the forums have continued to evolve.
But as you say, the GF has always been a rough place.
My only advice for members is to not take it too seriously. Use it and enjoy it if you can, but if it becomes a problem for you then just stay out of it and enjoy some of the other forums as well as the other features available here.
31 Aug 15
Originally posted by Red NightObviously, if we go back to 2006 when Yasser Serawein showed up to check the place out with the intention of buying subscriptions for 50 or more young players he was coaching only to be driven off in less than a day by the bullies we can see how the two worlds; unfettered social media 'banter' and serious chess are totally incompatible, at least here in the US.
Is this episode still accessible in the archives?
31 Aug 15
Originally posted by mwmillerI have heard you talk about the problems that existed before I arrived. I am sure they were very similar to what we have now.
Forum problems went back a little further than that. Shortly after the original forum was added to the site it didn't take long to get out of hand. Russ and Chris made attempts to maintain a civil atmosphere.
It was a lost cause for two people to try and keep it peaceful on a 24/7 site, so the forum was completely shut down for a few weeks. When it ca ...[text shortened]... stay out of it and enjoy some of the other forums as well as the other features available here.
Again, I would argue that serious chess and unfettered social media is probably a bad mix.
If things are better now it may be because there are more and better outlets for people to engage in the sort of social media attacks that once flourished here.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it always seemed to me that Russ was driven by the same social media vision that prompted him to start the old dating site. And Chris was looking to create a chess site in order to build a games database to drive a chess engine he called Rival.
Neither are particularly good chess players. Russ did not understand that in the US chess was mostly a game for children and Chris did not understand that you could never have enough games to build a chess engine.