16 Dec 16
Originally posted by KellyJayYou are the one with the invisible friend, I like to have friends I can count on. Let's see your god cure all the 3 year old children with cancer then, if you think it is real. And of course that is not going to happen, not now, not in a thousand years, it is up to humans to figure out the cure for ourselves, your god just doesn't give a rats ass about humans otherwise it wouldn't let little children who can't even make the choice of a god, that is beyond their development at 2 or 3, yet they die by the millions. Some god you have there, letting babies die like that. And of course your rationalization would be they all go to heaven. Suffer the little children to come on to me. Notice the first word there.
Seeing the absence is equal to being blind to it if He is there don't you think?
How do you know what God sees as important? You are in this sliver of time called now,
and God isn't, you are in a single point in the universe God isn't, you have interactions
with a limited number of things/people God is aware of it all everywhere all at once. You
have li ...[text shortened]... were real, and none of that
addresses how the whole universe is knitted together to form life.
But you have to know the 7 day creation tale is just a plagairized version of a very old Egyptian tale, the Jewish slaves in Egypt liked the story so they just changed the names to protect the innocent.
If there is ID, and the universe is built to allow life, then you would have to admit there will be billions of other civilizations in the universe and therefore humans are not on the top of the totem pole.
16 Dec 16
2 edits
Originally posted by sonhouseWe both can acknowledge we cannot always see what is there or what is important!
You are the one with the invisible friend, I like to have friends I can count on. Let's see your god cure all the 3 year old children with cancer then, if you think it is real. And of course that is not going to happen, not now, not in a thousand years, it is up to humans to figure out the cure for ourselves, your god just doesn't give a rats ass about huma ...[text shortened]... f other civilizations in the universe and therefore humans are not on the top of the totem pole.
Sometimes they are to small, sometimes the forest hides the trees, not seeing God does
not mean He isn't there. Again, seeing God does not address how the universe:
*A* got here
*B* maintains itself
*C* got knitted together to support life
*D* maintains the support of life
There is also more to this life than living and dying, this life isn't (it) there is more to come.
One thing we do know, each of us that is alive right now here will not be always.
Another thing we know none of us were promised tomorrow, or even the rest of today.
Another thing we know good things and bad things happen to everyone.
So those alive 1000 years ago lived and died dealing with pain and sorrow just as we do
today, and as each of us pass through this life, this life origins matter! If it is all a grand
accident of atoms and sunshine than no matter if you lived a good life or bad changes
the outcome you'll be gone once you leave this place. If it was knitted together for a cause
than that cause is very important, and the life we live here may have meaning far beyond
our *science of today*.
AGAIN you telling what God cares about is suppose to carry water why? The only god
you know about is the one between your ears! I don't give a rats ass what that god thinks
because it is a make believe god which you created.
God who holds it all together by the power of His Word, the God who sees everything at
once, the God who isn't limited by the moment 'now' but instead resides in the eternal, the
God who provides, the God who heals, the God who gives and takes away, the God who
is LOVE is far more than we can grasp and so is the universe which is nothing but His
handy work. There isn't a single person who isn't as loved as the next so mistreating any
other is as bad as mistreating Him. The totem pole has us at the top, but not all of us want
to be there, that is on us not God.
16 Dec 16
Originally posted by KellyJayI don't see love in a god that would allow a 3 year old to die an extremely painful death with cancer. I see that god as strictly hands off, we are on our own. You don't see that god giving scientists hints, saying, don't study that effect, it leads nowhere, now THIS one here, that is a gold mine of medical knowledge. That just doesn't happen. It is up to us to save those kids and so far we are not doing such a great job of it so thousands of babes die a horrible painfilled death. Then there are the horrible disfigurements of people, elephant man and the like, no god helped him or anyone with leprosy, EVER.
We both can acknowledge we cannot always see what is there or what is important!
Sometimes they are to small, sometimes the forest hides the trees, not seeing God does
not mean He isn't there. Again, seeing God does not address how the universe:
*A* got here
*B* maintains itself
*C* got knitted together to support life
*D* maintains the support of l ...[text shortened]... m. The totem pole has us at the top, but not all of us want
to be there, that is on us not God.
Not a word as to how to cure leprosy, what causes it and so forth, just like mums the word on why eating pig made you sick, not a word like, just cook the hell out of it, there are these little tiny bugs you can't even see that will make you sick. Nothing like that EVER, so MEN puts it in the bible not to eat pig, end of sick people from that disease.
I can go on and on about your oh so loving god but that is enough to illustrate the problem for me.
16 Dec 16
1 edit
Originally posted by sonhouseI don't believe God wants death by any means let alone painful ones, for children or anyone else.
I don't see love in a god that would allow a 3 year old to die an extremely painful death with cancer. I see that god as strictly hands off, we are on our own. You don't see that god giving scientists hints, saying, don't study that effect, it leads nowhere, now THIS one here, that is a gold mine of medical knowledge. That just doesn't happen. It is up to u ...[text shortened]... an go on and on about your oh so loving god but that is enough to illustrate the problem for me.
I also don't believe in a hands off God either, that said I don't believe everything will go the way we want. Which means what happens here matters, what we do has consequences even very painful ones that affects even innocent ones.
I agree too that as our bad actions will cause bad things, so our good ones can heal and make our lives better.
This has to do with ID?
17 Dec 16
Originally posted by KellyJayIt doesn't seem intelligent to me for a god, supposedly a loving god to allow thousands of children to die of cancer before they can even declare their religion. That is not right in anyone's book. Your alleged god is allegedly omniscient, knows all, knows the path of every atom in the universe from start to finish, right? Yet it allows a 3 yo to die a horrible painful death. Come on, you can't have it both ways, if it knows all then it knew when it invented the universe it was going to allow the suffering of babies from day one, therefore it didn't care.
I don't believe God wants death by any means let alone painful ones, for children or anyone else.
I also don't believe in a hands off God either, that said I don't believe everything will go the way we want. Which means what happens here matters, what we do has consequences even very painful ones that affects even innocent ones.
I agree too that as ou ...[text shortened]... ause bad things, so our good ones can heal and make our lives better.
This has to do with ID?
That does not seem intelligent to me, that seems more hands off.
About all you can say is your alleged god invented, breathed out this universe, whatever, and endowed it with the conditions rife for life and let the dice fall where they may. Which implies if there is life on Earth, as there is, therefore it follows there will be life of some form, maybe just bacteria, or insects, whatever, but life just about everywhere we look where there is an energy source, minerals and water. Therefore we are not alone and therefore not at the top of the totem pole like people imagine.
God help the universe if humans ARE on top of the totem pole of life.
18 Dec 16
Originally posted by sonhouseThere are a lot of things I wonder about such as why do we need anything as food, water, shelter, and so on. Death once it entered our lives is very indiscriminate not respecting anyone at any age and the causes varies again indiscriminately.
It doesn't seem intelligent to me for a god, supposedly a loving god to allow thousands of children to die of cancer before they can even declare their religion. That is not right in anyone's book. Your alleged god is allegedly omniscient, knows all, knows the path of every atom in the universe from start to finish, right? Yet it allows a 3 yo to die a hor ...[text shortened]... e like people imagine.
God help the universe if humans ARE on top of the totem pole of life.
Am I to understand your rejection of God has more to do with how you view death than creation, ID, or evolution?
18 Dec 16
Originally posted by KellyJayPretty much. If your god called humans into existence, it is doing absolutely nothing to keep them alive. If children have to die, why not just arrange it so they die in their sleep without pain? The fact they do die painful horrible deaths speaks a lot to the hands off of your god. But none of that matters to you, your god is everything and you just accept all the suffering with, oh well, we all die.
There are a lot of things I wonder about such as why do we need anything as food, water, shelter, and so on. Death once it entered our lives is very indiscriminate not respecting anyone at any age and the causes varies again indiscriminately.
Am I to understand your rejection of God has more to do with how you view death than creation, ID, or evolution?
18 Dec 16
Originally posted by sonhouseGod does causes us into existence, and as I told you this life isn't it! If you are going to
Pretty much. If your god called humans into existence, it is doing absolutely nothing to keep them alive. If children have to die, why not just arrange it so they die in their sleep without pain? The fact they do die painful horrible deaths speaks a lot to the hands off of your god. But none of that matters to you, your god is everything and you just accept all the suffering with, oh well, we all die.
buy into all of the things you think are evil in the Bible why not the rest that talks about
how death is called an enemy and it is to be destroyed? Sin entered into our lives and the
results were devastating but as bad as it has been and its supposed to get much worse
before the end, the other side is much better.
God isn't hands off, instead He made a way for all of us to be saved, as many of us to be
saved as answer His call by going to Him. The whole lot of us could have been judged
evil instead He let our wills play out and in the middle of this evil world, and in it God
saves and repairs us. Granted there are many man made Christians, man made this that
and the other things we call ourselves, but God does save and change lives putting His
Spirit into our broken lives! He didn't come for the perfect among us but sinners which is a
good thing since all of us are sinners, that isn't hands off that is God in action..
18 Dec 16
Originally posted by KellyJayI don't buy into the scam, that's the bottom line.
God does causes us into existence, and as I told you this life isn't it! If you are going to
buy into all of the things you think are evil in the Bible why not the rest that talks about
how death is called an enemy and it is to be destroyed? Sin entered into our lives and the
results were devastating but as bad as it has been and its supposed to get much ...[text shortened]... which is a
good thing since all of us are sinners, that isn't hands off that is God in action..
19 Dec 16
Originally posted by KellyJayIt's interesting how you continue to reject the idea a god is hands off when faced with overwhelming evidence, like I said, suffering children only one such line. The stories in the bible are just made up by men, like the test of Ab, you believe in me, kill your son, as a test of loyalty when in fact a god, being omniscient would have known the results of any such test and would therefore not needed ever to give such tests. The fact the stories were written in such a way as to further bind the congregation, tells me 100% it, among many others like the WW flood, allegory, and not to be taken literally. A god would never need such a test and you can pull all the 'so you think you know the mind of god' cards all you want but that doesn't change the fact an omniscient god would never need to pull such tests. Like the test for original sin, a disgusting theology in the first place.
What scam am I pointing you to anyone or anyplace? If I were to point you into any prayer it would be to reject the god of hands off, and towards the hands on God nothing more.
No god would need to do that since it would know when the universe was created what tests would fail and so forth.
But none of my arguments amounts to a hill of beans to you. You are right and I am wrong, no matter what goes down.
19 Dec 16
Originally posted by sonhouseYou've given me nothing that suggests God is hands off. I've answered about suffering
It's interesting how you continue to reject the idea a god is hands off when faced with overwhelming evidence, like I said, suffering children only one such line. The stories in the bible are just made up by men, like the test of Ab, you believe in me, kill your son, as a test of loyalty when in fact a god, being omniscient would have known the results of a ...[text shortened]... ments amounts to a hill of beans to you. You are right and I am wrong, no matter what goes down.
that doesn't mean God is hands off, it means we reap what we sow. You claiming the
stories in the Bible are made up by men doesn't mean they were, you are just declaring
what you think is true nothing more. Nothing about any of this address the beginning of
all things and after this discussion I realize evidence isn't something you are overly
concern with or we would still be debating the evidence of a finite universe with no
scientific reason to being here. You instead look at the moral dilemma you see in some
scripture and use that to justify your views on creation as if one spoke directly about the
other.
Again I ask you how do you know what an omniscient god would need or want? Could
anything He desire have to do with what the rest of His non-omniscient creation may need?
20 Dec 16
Originally posted by KellyJayWe reap what we sow? You talking about 'original sin'? So a 3 yo child dying a terrible pain ridden death even before it could claim a religion is the direct result of falling out of favor in the garden? You continue to pull the 'now you know the mind of god' card as if that is what I am saying. I don't claim to know the mind of some god, only the results and those results tell me if there is a god, it is hands off. How can you not see that? With millions of babies dying horrible deaths before they can ever become christian or muslim or whatever, you just rationalize all that by pulling the 'original sin' card? That is a rationalization you know, not a fact.
You've given me nothing that suggests God is hands off. I've answered about suffering
that doesn't mean God is hands off, it means we reap what we sow. You claiming the
stories in the Bible are made up by men doesn't mean they were, you are just declaring
what you think is true nothing more. Nothing about any of this address the beginning of
all things ...[text shortened]... Could
anything He desire have to do with what the rest of His non-omniscient creation may need?