@galveston75 saidNot interested in your personal life.... could not care less. We are here to discuss the matter of JWs and their doctrine, a topic brought up by you. Any post that is not related to this is a waste [not "waist"] of everyone's time. Go take a course in English, and read your bible as well.
@Rajk999
Nope no running here. Been out of town. My wife's mother has incurable cancer and she has to be with her as much as possible. Sorry but you are not my priority. Plus you my friend are a waist of time.......
Can't wait to hear your sick remarks on this.
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@galveston75 saidGreat.
Nope no running here.
The question put to you, how can you claim your church has never worshipped Jesus when the founder of your church, Charles Russell, taught that it was proper to worship Jesus and pray to him?
Is this something you were not aware of, or pretending didn't occur?
@galveston75
Here's a reminder of what Charles Russell taught (Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Oct pp.2-3)
"It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself, but when Cornelius offered such service to Peter--the leading apostle-- "he took him up, saying, stand up; I myself also am a man." .... Had Christ not been more than a man the same reason would have prevented from receiving worship...."
Edit: Is this perhaps a secret within your church that you have been told not to talk about?
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The inability of the JW here to explain why the founder of their church advocated for the worship of Jesus (having insisted their church has never done such a thing) leads me to wonder if this is indeed a dark secret at the core of their church that they have been instructed to sweep under the carpet.
As it is clear I will find no answer here I will take it instead to social media and see if there is a Jehovah's witness out there who will address the question. (Randomly I have chosen a Facebook Assembly Hall Of JWs in San Antoni).
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThe initial doctrine of worshiping Jesus became at odds with another false doctrine, that of Jesus being Michael the Archangel who they now believe are one and the same. The bible is clear that angels must not be worshipped, and since Jesus is in fact Michael [according to them], then Jesus cannot be worshiped.
The inability of the JW here to explain why the founder of their church advocated for the worship of Jesus (having insisted their church has never done such a thing) leads me to wonder if this is indeed a dark secret at the core of their church that they have been instructed to sweep under the carpet.
As it is clear I will find no answer here I will take it instead ...[text shortened]... o will address the question. (Randomly I have chosen a Facebook Assembly Hall Of JWs in San Antoni).
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@carnivorum saidIf God, I Am, is the one and only God, why would He be jealous of non-existent beings? And even if there were other gods, and God, I Am, created everything, they would only be worshiping I Am indirectly. In other words, the people worshiping other gods are worshiping I Am's creations. It's like indirectly admiring Leonardo da Vinci through the admiration of his artful creation of the Mona Lisa painting.
So we agree that Y-H-W-H is God.
And since He says in the beginning of the ten commandments: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before me. 4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not ...[text shortened]... JC, they are now totally right not to worship any other God then the one and only true God Y-H-W-H.
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidAll the churches I have ever visited don't have carpeted floors. But I can't say that I have ever set foot on any of the JW's churches. Do they have carpets to sweep under?
The inability of the JW here to explain why the founder of their church advocated for the worship of Jesus (having insisted their church has never done such a thing) leads me to wonder if this is indeed a dark secret at the core of their church that they have been instructed to sweep under the carpet.
As it is clear I will find no answer here I will take it instead ...[text shortened]... o will address the question. (Randomly I have chosen a Facebook Assembly Hall Of JWs in San Antoni).
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@pettytalk saidI imagine it to be quite ostentatious.
All the churches I have ever visited don't have carpeted floors. But I can't say that I have ever set foot on any of the JW's churches. Do they have carpets to sweep under?
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidGalveston75 you seem to have ducked out of this question from Ghost of a Duke.
@galveston75 said
We have never worshiped Jesus or Michael. Jesus himself forbids it....
Back in reality, Charles Russell, founder of Jehovah's Witnesses, taught that it was proper to worship Jesus and pray to him.
"It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, ...[text shortened]... e same reason would have prevented from receiving worship...."
Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Oct pp.2-3
See you in another 18 months or so then 😂
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@divegeester saidThe unanswered question will be waiting for him upon his return.
Galveston75 you seem to have ducked out of this question from Ghost of a Duke.
See you in another 18 months or so then 😂
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@ghost-of-a-duke saidAnd so we have that old saying: 'Good things come to those who wait.' How long must we wait for Christ's return? We'll ask Jesus if it's all right to worship him.
The unanswered question will be waiting for him upon his return.
If the JW do not believe in the Trinity, then Jesus, although supposedly the son of Jehovah, is still technically another god not to be worshiped. The Christian sects which believe in the Trinity are, technically, worshiping Jehovah.
Obviously, the JW organization had a change of view if they first did worship Jesus, but no longer do now.
Christianity is a house full of division. Why is there so much division and strife among all the Christians when Jesus is said to be the Prince of Peace?
The controversial passage of Matt 10:34-36 may not be just a direct statement. Jesus warns of the deep division that His message will cause among people, even dividing families. With the aid of a vivid imagination, and a little fringe thinking, the passage can be looked at as a distant future prophecy. A prophecy applying not only to what the house of Christianity would look like in the future but also to the wars in the 'house' of the Abrahamic religions. Nearly 75% of the earth's current population belongs to one of the three: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. And there is division and strife within each of the three, not just Christianity. Not to mention the historical wars and strife between the three.
JESUS: 'Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household."
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@pettytalk saidYes, clearly a change of view. My issue however was the fellow saying his church had never worshipped Jesus. That is incorrect, and therefore a lie or a case of him not knowing the history of his own church. (Which is a bit weird as we are discussing the belief of his church's founder).
Obviously, the JW organization had a change of view if they first did worship Jesus, but no longer do now.
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2 edits
@ghost-of-a-duke saidIt’s interesting that Galveston75 chose not to address the issue; another sign of cultish mindset perhaps. I.E “I cannot be wrong about my religious organisation” I’ve called this behaviour/attitude the “eggshell effect” in the past, one crack and the whole thing loses strength.
Yes, clearly a change of view. My issue however was the fellow saying his church had never worshipped Jesus. That is incorrect, and therefore a lie or a case of him not knowing the history of his own church. (Which is a bit weird as we are discussing the belief of his church's founder).
As a theist myself I have become increasingly liberal in terms of my own mindset of beliefs, doctrines etc. There are a couple of things I won’t move on, such as the nature of the Godhead for example as I’ve been round the houses on all the options and am happy with where I’ve landed on it. But generally speaking I’m open to all new ideas.
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@divegeester saidI strongly suspect he has been told not to discuss things that shine a light on previously held beliefs that no longer match up to their current dogma.
It’s interesting that Galveston75 chose not to address the issue; another sign of cultish mindset perhaps. I.E “I cannot be wrong about my religious organisation” I’ve called this behaviour/attitude the “eggshell effect” in the past, one crack and the whole thing loses strength.
As a theist myself I have become increasingly liberal in terms of my own mindset of belief ...[text shortened]... options and am happy with where I’ve landed on it. But generally speaking I’m open to all new ideas.