My God, My God why have you forsaken me.

It is good to let the bronze rings remind us that Christ offered Himself to God by the eternal Spirit (Hebrews 9:14).

Now, Christ is both God and man. Christ did not become a man all of a sudden. Christ in incarnation took the normal process of conception, growth, and delivery in becoming a man.

Christ was conceived in the womb of the woman Mary, a virgin. Christ is the Mighty God become a man, spent NINE MONTHS in the womb of Mary. This is fantastic. The child born unto us was the Mighty God Jehovah.

For thirty three and one half years Christ lived as a God-man. Although He was God, even the Mighty God (Isaiah 9:6) He lived on earth not as God, but as a man.

We will see next that He did EVERYTHING by the Holy Spirit.

Christ was conceived how? ... by the Holy Spirit Matthew 1 and Luke 2. When He came forth to minister as a man from Nazareth how was He anointed? ... By the Holy Spirit. At His baptism He was anointed with the Holy Spirit (Matt. 3:16).
Throughout all of His life He was full of the Spirit amd was under the leading of the Spirit (Luke 4:1).

Christ lived and moved, spoke and acted by the Holy Spirit. Christ casted out demons by the Holy Spirit (Matt. 12). Christ as God become a man did everything by the Holy Spirit.

And He offered Himself on the cross not by His own initiative. This He did also through the eternal Spirit (Hebrews 9:14). Jesus Christ was a man who did everything under the leading of the Spirit and by the power of the Spirit. He did not act according to His own will, wishes or desires. Christ lived and moved, and acted according to the Spirit including DYING (through the eternal Spirit).

Jesus Christ did not go to the cross according to His own wishes.
If He had sparred Himself from it, this ALSO would have been not according to His wishes. This is why He said "Not as I will, but as You will."

Whether to spare Himself or not was all in obedience to the leading of the Spirit. His own will He put aside and He lived by the Father's will and followed the eternal Spirit of God.

Conceived by the Spirit, anointed by the Spirit, worked by the Spirit, spoke by the Spirit, and died by the Spirit - that is this God-man the Lord Jesus.

His entire life jad been lived according to the leading of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, His going to the cross was also according to the leading of the Divine Spirit Who is God.

On the cross Jesus died an all-inclusive death. In death He destroyed Satan, judged the world, terminated the old creation, broke down the middle wall of partition between Jew and Gentile, abolished the handwriting of the law in ordinances. All of this can become our subjective experience because He offered Himself through the eternal Spirit.

The Eternal Spirit now has as its rich and all-inclusive ingredients all the Jesus the God-man obtained and attained. We MUST be born of this Spirit and bring all this rich attainment into our being for the fulfillment of God's plan.

Originally posted by Suzianne
There are plenty of scriptures about it. You and your brothers choose to politicize this and use semantics (God vs, Almighty God). And then they concoct their Bible to satisfy their man-made dogma. Pathetic and heretic. All to put forth the idea that you are right and everyone else is wrong.

The scriptures exist, even if they are made to say somethin ...[text shortened]... fferent meanings than were intended, you lose your credibility. This should not be astonishing.

Produce a single scripture where Christ claims to be Almighty God.

Originally posted by sonship
It is good to let the bronze rings remind us that Christ offered Himself to God by the eternal Spirit [b](Hebrews 9:14).

Now, Christ is both God and man. Christ did not become a man all of a sudden. Christ in incarnation took the normal process of conception, growth, and delivery in becoming a man.

Christ was conceived in the womb of the woman Ma ...[text shortened]... nd moved, and acted according to the Spirit including DYING (through the eternal Spirit).[/b]

Not a single verse where Christ is alluded to as Almighty God. Mighty God is not the same as Almighty God the Hebrew terms are entirely different.

Originally posted by sonship
No it doesn't matter what I call you.
But a factious man, after 1st and 2nd admonition, refuse.
And you are that.

And the JW's have much [b]LESS biblical evidence Christ ever called Himself Michael the archangel or angel or whatever the case may be.[/b]

Then i should refuse you because you have made a claim concerning Jesus that is blatantly false and anti Biblical, you have stated that Jesus is Almighty God and you cannot produce a single iota where he makes this claim. You have stated that he is not a created being when the Bibles states that he is the firstborn OF creation, another anti Biblical and blatantly false statement.

Why can Jaywill not produce a single verse where Christs claims or is alluded to as Almighty God? because its not on the Bible. Why did he say it then? because it is part of his extra Biblical dogma. That is why if you notice he also introduces many non Biblical terms, terms like the trinity, unknown to either Jesus or Paul or any of the early Christians That is why he makes up terms like God-man, in an attempt to explain his extra Biblical dogma. that is why he attempts to refuse anyone who opposes his dogma, because being unable to assail the logic he resorts to other avenues of defense. Objectivity is lost to him and he cannot see his reflection.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Produce a single scripture where Christ claims to be Almighty God.

Can you produce a single verse where Christ claims to be Archangel Michael?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Can you produce a single verse where Christ claims to be Archangel Michael?

Argument from ignorance (Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance stands for "lack of evidence to the contrary), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that: there may have been an insufficient investigation, and therefore there is insufficient information to prove the proposition be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four,

true
false
unknown between true or false
being unknowable (among the first three).

In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used in an attempt to shift the burden of proof.

Christ is called Emmanuel which means "God with us".

"Now all this happened so that what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet might be fulfilled, saying,

'Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel' (which is translated, God with us) (Matt. 1:22,23).

Is there any place where we see in the "red letters" Jesus saying "I am Emmanuel" ? I can find none.

Because we find no explicit quotation from the mouth of Jesus saying "I am Emmanuel" does that prove that He is NOT Emmanuel ? NO, OF COURSE NOT!


Jesus says He is " the First and the Last" (Rev. 1:17).
But Jehovah said He is " the First and the Last " (Isaiah 44:6).

Without an explicit quotation in the so called "red letters" out of the mouth of Jesus - "I am the Almighty" does that prove Him not God Almighty ?

In the same way He is "Emmanuel" He is also "the Almighty".

Actually, we do see a powerful verse concerning Jesus coming on the clouds where He says that He is the Almighty.

" Behold He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him, and all the tribes of the land [the Holy Land] will mourn over Him, Yes, amen.

I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, He who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty." (Rev. 1:7,8)

Three main points to this post:

1.) Though the one said to be Emmanuel is found speaking the words "I am Emmanuel" is not found in the NT, He is still Emmanuel.

2.) If no words from the mouth of Jesus saying "I am God Almighty" were located in the NT, He is still God Almighty in the exact same way He is still Emmanuel - God with us.

3.) Revelation 1:7-9 are John's vision of Jesus coming on the clouds and He does say He is the Almighty.

The one saying "I am the Alpha and the Omega" both in Revelation 1:8 and ALSO in Revelation 22:13 is Jesus.

"Behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me to render to each one as his work is.

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End... I Jesus have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches, I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright morning star." (See Rev. 22:12-16)

The Jehovah's Witnesses really do not want God.
At least they do not want God imparted and dispensed into us as divine life. They do not want Jehovah on the terms of Jehovah.

What then do they want?

They want Jehovah's nice paradise.
They want Jehovah's pleasant garden earth with no disease and no death.
They want Jehovah's Edenic like planet with butterflies, singing birds, happy people and abundance and bounty for all nations. These things they want. And so the should.

But they do NOT want Jehovah on the terms of Jehovah. They do not want the God who would be incarnated as the Logos become flesh. They do not want the Jehovah who as a man "became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

And they do not want to be witnesses of God become a man in Jesus

" ... when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem and in Judea and Samaria and unto the uttermost part of the earth." (Acts 1:8)

When you see the term "Jehovah's Witness" what you really have to see is Christ rejecting men protesting to God - "We will not have this man to reign over us." (Luke 19:14)

They want God's paradise. They do not want God.
They want His blessings in the material realm and upon the earth.
They do not want Jehovah God dispensing Himself into man to be life to man.

Now let us deal with a paradox.

If Jesus is God HOW can He also say "My God, My God why have you forsaken Me." ?

This is a very hard question. It is probably impossible for us to comprehend fully. But the answer is in the revelation of the word of God.

If God can SEND God then why cannot God forsake God ?

" For thus says Jehovah of hosts, After the glory He has sent Me against the nations who plunder you; for he who touches you touches the pupil of His eye. (v.8)

For I am now waving My hand over them, and they will be plunder for those who served them; and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me. (v.9)

Give a ringing shout and rejoice, O daughter of Zion, for now I am coming, and will dwell in your midst, declares Jehovah. (v.10)

And many nations will join themselves to Jehovah in that day and will become My people; and I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that Jehovah of hosts has sent Me to you." (v.11)

(Zechariah 2:8-11)

If you check this passage very carefully you will see that Jehovah is both the Sender and the One being sent. Jehovah is the speaker and the One who is sent by Jehovah!

God sends God in Zechariah 2:8-11.
God is the sent one and the sending God Who is speaking.
The mysterious nature of God is seen in this passage.
And God become a man, in accomplishing redemption can cry out as well -

"My God, My God, Why have you forsaken Me." .

We are not commanded to be able to explain.
We are commanded to believe into Jesus Christ.

"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe into God, believe also into Me." (John 14:1, RcV)

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Argument from ignorance (Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance stands for "lack of evidence to the contrary), is a fallacy in informal logic. It asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a ...[text shortened]... debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used in an attempt to shift the burden of proof.[/b]

This is just waffling deflection. You're criticising others for something you yourself do. You don't have a leg to stand on and you know it.

Originally posted by sonship
Christ is called [b]Emmanuel which means "God with us".

"Now all this happened so that what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet might be fulfilled, saying,

'Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel' (which is translated, God with us) (Matt. 1:22,23). [/quote ...[text shortened]... the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright morning star." (See Rev. 22:12-16) [/b]

[/b]

and still not a single iota where Jesus makes the claim that he is Almighty God and none could be found. Where then did this teaching come from, because clearly it cannot be found in scripture.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
and still not a single iota where Jesus makes the claim that he is Almighty God and none could be found. Where then did this teaching come from, because clearly it cannot be found in scripture.

Open your eyes and read. You were just given this:

" Behold He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him, and all the tribes of the land [the Holy Land] will mourn over Him, Yes, amen.

I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, He who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty." (Rev. 1:7,8)

Jesus the God/man is the Lord God the Almighty and also the mighty God and the WORD that had His flesh pierced with nails and a spear.

This post is directed to a comment of robbie.

Evidence is not persuasion.

Don't think that I feel pressed in any conceivable way to re-point out and re-point out again and again what your blindness cannot see.

How long have we both been on this Forum? A few years for sure. You were proved wrong by the Bible years ago and are still being proved heretical. No new challenge has been unmet here.

Now I have a few more things to share with some readers about the typology of the altar.