Spirituality
22 Jan 17
20 Feb 17
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkI explained my position before. I have suggested nothing "magical" whatsoever. Go back and look at those threads again if you've forgotten and if your interest is genuine.
Which somehow entails no weighing up of evidence, no application of logic, and no choice whatsoever on your part, just a magical 'realization' that your beliefs have changed due to your experiences and observations. 🙄
20 Feb 17
Originally posted by FMFSo in essence your personal experience and your observations force you to believe things and you have no choice or control over what you end up believing.
Another option is the one - based on my personal experience and my observation of human nature in action over many decades - that I have explained to you many, many times, across multiple threads, over a period of months.
If we are essentially forced to believe things and cannot choose to believe anything, then it is irrelevant whether that which we believe in is true or false. We believe because were forced to believe, not because we weigh the evidence, apply logic, and choose to believe something. Is that correct?
20 Feb 17
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkIf you have somehow forgotten all the posts I addressed to you regarding the process of losing my Christian faith, and what I learned about human nature [when it comes to supernatural matters] from it, then you can go look at the threads where it was discussed in detail, particularly the Barriers to belief thread. Whether your amnesia is feigned - which I think it is - or whether you never did absorb or understand what I explained, either way, the stuff is still there if you want to take a look.
So in essence your personal experience and your observations force you to believe things and you have no choice or control over what you end up believing.
If we are essentially forced to believe things and cannot choose to believe anything, then it is irrelevant whether that which we believe in is true or false. We believe because were forced to beli ...[text shortened]... t because we weigh the evidence, apply logic, and choose to believe something. Is that correct?
20 Feb 17
Originally posted by FMFEither your personal experience and observation of human nature enable you to choose your beliefs or they 'force' your beliefs on you. I can't see any other option.
If you have somehow forgotten all the posts I addressed to you regarding the process of losing my Christian faith, and what I learned about human nature [when it comes to supernatural matters] from it, then you can go look at the threads where it was discussed in detail, particularly the Barriers to belief thread. Whether your amnesia is feigned - which I think ...[text shortened]... or understand what I explained, either way, the stuff is still there if you want to take a look.
20 Feb 17
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkYes. You already said that. You said that you can't see any option other than the one you agree with and the stupid sounding one you set up in your false dilemma. You said that before. You're just repeating yourself. Read my last few posts. Do you understand them?
Either your personal experience and observation of human nature enable you to choose your beliefs or they 'force' your beliefs on you. I can't see any other option.
20 Feb 17
Originally posted by FMFWhy do you think it is a false dilemma?
Yes. You already said that. You said that you can't see any option other than the one you agree with and the stupid sounding one you set up in your false dilemma. You said that before. You're just repeating yourself. Read my last few posts. Do you understand them?
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkWell if you take the definition of "false dilemma", and assume that's what I mean by it, then, if you bear in mind all the things I have said on this topic in hundreds of posts, you will be able to figure out why I think it is a false dilemma. If you can't figure it out, I really don't care. And unless you've got something new you want to talk about, please talk to someone else.
Why do you think it is a false dilemma?
Originally posted by FMFIf you feel that belief is neither chosen or forced, would you care to explain how it is you believe something when you cannot choose to believe it and when you aren't forced to believe it?
Well if you take the definition of "false dilemma", and assume that's what I mean by it, then, if you bear in mind all the things I have said on this topic in hundreds of posts, you will be able to figure out why I think it is a false dilemma. If you can't figure it out, I really don't care. And unless you've got something new you want to talk about, please talk to someone else.
You said before that you cannot choose to believe something that you don't find compelling. I agree but I do feel you can choose to believe something that you do find compelling. How else would you end up believing it against your will? The only other way is if you are compelled or forced to believe it against your will.
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeSo you cannot weigh up evidence and apply logic to reach a decision on whether something is convincing or not?
I choose if I want coffee or tea. I don't choose if I want to believe in God.
That is the bottom line. Indeed, belief in God would be quite meaningless if I could simply choose to believe in Him despite being unconvinced of His existence.
20 Feb 17
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkYou already know what my viewpoint is. You're just repeating yourself. You don't need to.
If you feel that belief is neither chosen or forced, would you care to explain how it is you believe something when you cannot choose to believe it and when you aren't forced to believe it?
You said before that you cannot choose to believe something that you don't find compelling. I agree but I do feel you can choose to believe something that you do f ...[text shortened]... your will? The only other way is if you are compelled or forced to believe it against your will.
