Russia: Witnesses a terrorist group

Originally posted by FMF
Correct me if I am wrong, but judging by statements you have made on this thread, it appears that the only human rights you are willing to support or struggle for are your own. And if this is so, does it stem from your interpretation of John 18:36 ?

Ok you are wrong and will now be corrected. This is not a struggle for civil rights and its difficult to see where you get the idea from. I suspect that you simply made it up.

Its a legal battle with the Russian government which has designated that we are extremists and is entirely specific to us. Your reference to John 18 therefore makes no sense and why you need to fabricate values in order to attack them is known only to you. I suspect that its once gain naught more than a reflection of the vacuous nature of your posts.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Ok you are wrong and will now be corrected. This is not a struggle for civil rights and its difficult to see where you get the idea from. I suspect that you simply made it up.

You believe a legal battle with the Russian government to end its systematic discrimination against a religious group and restore the rights of that group's members to congregate and to worship freely is not a struggle for civil rights? Are you sure?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Your reference to John 18 therefore makes no sense and why you need to fabricate values in order to attack them is known only to you. I suspect that its once gain naught more than a reflection of the vacuous nature of your posts.

Earlier on this thread, you said at one point "We are non political in the sense that we have no part in the political process. If the Russian Supreme court rules against us we will simply take the hit and go underground like we did when we were previously banned" and then at another point you said "We don't necessarily want to change Russia or even the government, we just want to be able to practice our religion, legally". You are seeking to assert your rights in Russia but you decline to support anyone else's struggle for their rights. Is this all because of your interpretation of John 18:36 ?

Originally posted by JS357
"...we don't do war."

I wonder if your ability to thrive as a religion is directly proportional to the willingness of the people of the country you are in to fight, to the point of war, for freedom of religion. In other words if you are as a religion, an economic "free rider" having your freedom of religion defended for you by others.

I expect that you ...[text shortened]... in my life are Witnesses, although they are distanced from me by their faith. Or my lack of it.

With all due respect we are not 'economic' free riders although I suspect that you used the term as an analogy to state that in some way were are parasitic. This only makes sense in Nation States that have actually gone to war with the specific intent of establishing freedom of religion, otherwise its simply a by product of freedoms enshrined in society none of which are specifically the consequence of war. It also fails when we consider Nation States who do not enshrine freedom of religious expression and yet there we are, living our lives, paying taxes and living in relative subjection to the State authority.

We would not ask people to fight for our freedoms because we ourselves are not prepared to kill others for a cause. Sure we are prepared to die, but not to kill other people. We have NO RIGHT to take life. Its stealing from God. Do you understand? This is the entire rationale, life is sacrosanct, it belongs to God and we cannot steal it by killing other people.

They should not be distanced from you by either their faith nor by your faith or lack of it. This pains me to hear that and I say that truly.

FMF: ... it appears that the only human rights you are willing to support or struggle for are your own.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Ok you are wrong and will now be corrected.

If, as you say, I'm wrong, then who else's human rights in Russia - apart from those of the JW organization's members - do you support?

Originally posted by FMF
Earlier on this thread, you said at one point [b]"We are non political in the sense that we have no part in the political process. If the Russian Supreme court rules against us we will simply take the hit and go underground like we did when we were previously banned" and then at another point you said "We don't necessarily want to change Russia or even th ...[text shortened]... one else's struggle for their rights. Is this all because of your interpretation of John 18:36 ?

We are engaged in a legal struggle.

Originally posted by FMF
If, as you say, I'm wrong, then who else's human rights in Russia - apart from those of the JW organization's members - do you support?

I have already stated that its specific to us. Why we should be concerned with the rights of others in a legal case that is specific to us you will now explain.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
We are engaged in a legal struggle.

A legal struggle by which you seek to assert your right to worship and congregate freely, yes? Do you believe that the 'right to worship and congregate freely' is not a human right?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Why we should be concerned with the rights of others in a legal case that is specific to us you will now explain.

Perhaps because other people are being persecuted and discriminated against in Russia. Why would you not be concerned about that?

Originally posted by FMF
A legal struggle by which you seek to assert your right to worship and congregate freely, yes? Do you believe that the 'right to worship and congregate freely' is [b]not a human right?[/b]

I have already stated why we are engaged in a legal struggle and will not do so again.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I have already stated why we are engaged in a legal struggle and will not do so again.

You are engaged in a legal struggle to assert your human or civil right to worship and congregate freely. Or do you deny this?

Originally posted by FMF
Perhaps because other people are being persecuted and discriminated against in Russia. Why would you not be concerned about that?

Does a man who is going to court to defend himself on a charge of assault worry about other people who are charged with assault? Does he? why would he be concerned about other people who are charged with assault? or who may be charged with assault?

Originally posted by FMF
You are engaged in a legal struggle to assert your human or civil right to worship and congregate freely. Or do you deny this?

I am not repeating it. I have already stated four times why we are engaged in a legal struggle, please try to be less repetitive and tedious.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Does a man who is going to court to defend himself on a charge of assault worry about other people who are charged with assault? Does he? why would he be concerned about other people who are charged with assault?

Answering a charge of assault in court and asserting your human rights in court are two completely different matters.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am not repeating it. I have already stated four times why we are engaged in a legal struggle, please try to be less repetitive and tedious.

You haven't answered the question as to whether you believe it is a human right to worship and congregate freely.