13 Apr 14
Originally posted by FMFWell starting in the past long before Christ walked the planet as a man God
So the sins you will commit tomorrow, for instance, will be forgiven ~ and you personally will not be punished for them ~ because of what Jesus underwent 2,000 years ago?
told us what we going to happen to Him and why. Jesus was to pay dearly
for what we have done.
Isaiah 52: 14 Many people were shocked when they saw him.
His appearance was so damaged he did not look like a man;
his form was so changed they could barely tell he was human.
We may have seen movies and how they doctor up actors who play Jesus
after they punished him, but I don't think they got right.
Isaiah 53:4 But he took our suffering on him
and felt our pain for us.
We saw his suffering
and thought God was punishing him.
5 But he was wounded for the wrong we did;
he was crushed for the evil we did.
The punishment, which made us well, was given to him,
and we are healed because of his wounds.
6 We all have wandered away like sheep;
each of us has gone his own way.
But the Lord has put on him the punishment
for all the evil we have done.
So God was setting up our salvation, in the Law God setup a means by
which there was a period of time where there were high priests who offered
gifts and sacrifices to God.
Hebrews 9:
23 So the copies of the real things in heaven had to be made clean by animal sacrifices. But the real things in heaven need much better sacrifices. 24 Christ did not go into the Most Holy Place made by humans, which is only a copy of the real one. He went into heaven itself and is there now before God to help us. 25 The high priest enters the Most Holy Place once every year with blood that is not his own. But Christ did not offer himself many times. 26 Then he would have had to suffer many times since the world was made. But Christ came only once and for all time at just the right time to take away all sin by sacrificing himself. 27 Just as everyone must die once and then be judged, 28 so Christ was offered as a sacrifice one time to take away the sins of many people. And he will come a second time, not to offer himself for sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
The point to this answers your question, Jesus did it once and for all for our
sins. He does not have to do it again, and again. We are counted as dead
when we come to him, and he gives us new life for our old life.
Colossians 3:
3 Since you were raised from the dead with Christ, aim at what is in heaven, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Think only about the things in heaven, not the things on earth. 3 Your old sinful self has died, and your new life is kept with Christ in God.
Originally posted by FMFWhat exactly is the question then?
You have not demonstrated how the King David story answers the question I posed to Kelly.
What I find perplexing is why do you even care? Seriously, you are asking those of faith to expand on their view of sin that is based upon a Biblical perspective. However, you deride the Bible and have no respect for its veracity. My only conclusion is that you ask these questions merely to expound further on why you view the Bible as pure bunk.
Is trolling a sin FMF?
Why not comfort yourself with the thought that there is no God and there is no hell and call it a day?
13 Apr 14
Originally posted by whodeyWell this certainly doesn't answer the question I posed to Kelly.
What exactly is the question then?
What I find perplexing is why do you even care? Seriously, you are asking those of faith to expand on their view of sin that is based upon a Biblical perspective. However, you deride the Bible and have no respect for its veracity. My only conclusion is that you ask these questions merely to expound further on why you v ...[text shortened]... t comfort yourself with the thought that there is no God and there is no hell and call it a day?
13 Apr 14
Originally posted by KellyJaySo the sins you will commit tomorrow have been forgiven in advance as long as you "serve God"? Is that what you are saying?
Well starting in the past long before Christ walked the planet as a man God
told us what we going to happen to Him and why. Jesus was to pay dearly
for what we have done.
Isaiah 52: 14 Many people were shocked when they saw him.
His appearance was so damaged he did not look like a man;
his form was so changed they could barely tell he was hum ...[text shortened]... things on earth. 3 Your old sinful self has died, and your new life is kept with Christ in God.
13 Apr 14
Originally posted by whodeyThe "God" debate is part of society's struggle to find meaning in the larger world. Those of us skeptical of established religion do not wish to simply abandon the struggle. We may feel that things like the Bible and Hell have us on a bit of a detour at the moment, but we have to work with them as long as they continue to engage so many other people.
What exactly is the question then?
What I find perplexing is why do you even care? Seriously, you are asking those of faith to expand on their view of sin that is based upon a Biblical perspective. However, you deride the Bible and have no respect for its veracity. My only conclusion is that you ask these questions merely to expound further on why you v ...[text shortened]... t comfort yourself with the thought that there is no God and there is no hell and call it a day?
13 Apr 14
Originally posted by SwissGambitWhat is the intrinsic nature and scope of the "meaning in the larger world" you hope to find?
The "God" debate is part of society's struggle to find meaning in the larger world. Those of us skeptical of established religion do not wish to simply abandon the struggle. We may feel that things like the Bible and Hell have us on a bit of a detour at the moment, but we have to work with them as long as they continue to engage so many other people.
14 Apr 14
Originally posted by SwissGambitSo I find meaning in my faith and it troubles you?
The "God" debate is part of society's struggle to find meaning in the larger world. Those of us skeptical of established religion do not wish to simply abandon the struggle. We may feel that things like the Bible and Hell have us on a bit of a detour at the moment, but we have to work with them as long as they continue to engage so many other people.
It seems that you will only be happy when people like yourself who have no meaning become just like you.
14 Apr 14
Originally posted by whodeyNo, your finding meaning from your faith does not trouble me.
So I find meaning in my faith and it troubles you?
It seems that you will only be happy when people like yourself who have no meaning become just like you.
I am not sure what happened to your last sentence, but I guess you meant something like "you will only be happy when other people who have meaning lose it and become like you, who has none."
Naturally, I don't accept the premise that I 'have no meaning'. I think everyone has things that are meaningful to them.
My point is basically that I see theism as part of the quest for meaning, and that is a quest we all share, even if we don't share the theism. That's why we skeptics are here, even though we find many of the claims of religion to be faulty.
14 Apr 14
Originally posted by whodeyI invariably find, when religionists tell sceptics, dissenters or people with different beliefs that their lives have "no meaning" [as they so often do], that this assertion implies a lot about the religionists' own mind maps and their lives, and says nothing at all that is real or perceptive about the lives of the sceptics, dissenters they are referring to.
It seems that you will only be happy when people like yourself who have no meaning become just like you.
14 Apr 14
1 edit
Originally posted by SwissGambitSo you do have meaning in your life? The way you made it sound in your previous post, I had my doubts.
No, your finding meaning from your faith does not trouble me.
I am not sure what happened to your last sentence, but I guess you meant something like "you will only be happy when other people who have meaning lose it and become like you, who has none."
Naturally, I don't accept the premise that I 'have no meaning'. I think everyone has things that ...[text shortened]... hat's why we skeptics are here, even though we find many of the claims of religion to be faulty.
Well good, so you have decided to spread your gospel of what SHOULD give life meaning to theists who are deceived that they actually have meaning.
Then what is this meaning that they lack?
14 Apr 14
Originally posted by FMFWe all have meaning in our lives. I know because I had meaning before finding my faith. However, there was always a nagging emptiness I could never put my finger on.
I invariably find, when religionists tell sceptics, dissenters or people with different beliefs that their lives have "no meaning" [as they so often do], that this assertion implies a lot about the religionists' own mind maps and their lives, and says nothing at all that is real or perceptive about the lives of the sceptics, dissenters they are referring to.
14 Apr 14
1 edit
Originally posted by whodeyI would say that my sense of meaning and purpose has been enhanced by becoming an ex-Christian, so dealing with your "emptiness" is a matter for you that you ought to be able to do without insisting that others [unlike you] have lives with "no meaning". Here you now say "We all have meaning in our lives". Two posts ago you said to SwissGambit "...people like yourself who have no meaning". Which is to be?
We all have meaning in our lives. I know because I had meaning before finding my faith. However, there was always a nagging emptiness I could never put my finger on.
14 Apr 14
1 edit
Originally posted by whodeyI don't have a gospel. I don't think theists are deceived in thinking they actually have meaning. I just think that sometimes they close their eyes to other forms of meaning outside their own faith. I'm not saying they should share those meanings; I'd be content for them to acknowledge that there are other forms of meaning.
So you do have meaning in your life? The way you made it sound in your previous post, I had my doubts.
Well good, so you have decided to spread your gospel of what SHOULD give life meaning to theists who are deceived that they actually have meaning.
Then what is this meaning that they lack?
For example, that people of other religions, and people of no religion, also find meaning in things, without invoking the same god, or any god at all, in the case of the atheist.
(this paragraph is more specific to Christianity)
Also, a desire to participate in the culture outside the religion. The government ought to respect all faiths and show favoritism to none. Support the idea that people of different beliefs should strive to live in peace despite the differences. Here in the US, we're fixated on this whole "Christian Nation" thing that does a great disservice to people of other beliefs.
14 Apr 14
Originally posted by FMFThat is is usually addressed to those atheists who believe everything came about by random chance evolution without a plan or purpose. This implies that life has no meaning and who or what lives or dies has no meaning.
I invariably find, when religionists tell sceptics, dissenters or people with different beliefs that their lives have "no meaning" [as they so often do], that this assertion implies a lot about the religionists' own mind maps and their lives, and says nothing at all that is real or perceptive about the lives of the sceptics, dissenters they are referring to.