The Spirit was not yet

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, a man attested by God and appointed as head of the church.

But I would have you know, that
the head of every man is Christ;
and the head of the woman is the man;
and the head of Christ is God.
(1 Corinthians 11:3 KJV)

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Is Rev 20:2 already past? I think this is future, it hasn't happened yet.
Where is the devil, Satan exposed in the OT?

That old serpent that deceived Eve was in the garden of Eden
The same was the Devil or Satan.
God allowed Satan [also known as the Devil or the Old Serpent] to do his work and allowed sin to enter the world.

The OT is full of references to Satan.
Dont you think that the Jews read the OT ?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Examples by the hundreds actually. My way of getting around that is the the Bible is not meant to be a book that can explain everything to our satisfaction. God probably had good reason to destroy everyone, and the full facts at that time are not known to us.

I have come across explanations [Checkbaiter I think] which says that everyone were descended fr ...[text shortened]... has to ask is where did Noah get his daughters in law, did those women not have any good family?

So you disagree that God is all good? You believe that God brings good and evil?
That means you think Jesus is wrong? The Epistles are wrong?

1 John 1:5-6

5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
NKJV

Mark 10:18-19
So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
NKJV

Originally posted by Rajk999
That old serpent that deceived Eve was in the garden of Eden
The same was the Devil or Satan.
God allowed Satan [also known as the Devil or the Old Serpent] to do his work and allowed sin to enter the world.

The OT is full of references to Satan.
Dont you think that the Jews read the OT ?

Yes but they did not know who the serpent was.
The handful of references to Satan in the Old Testament (see Gen. 3:1, Job 1:6-13; 2:1-7; Isa. 14:12-20, and Ezek. 28:1-19) did not fully reveal the being who Jesus revealed in the New Testament. Looking back in light of the New Testament, we understand these verses as referring to him, but they were sufficiently cryptic so as to conceal much information about him. They recognized the existence of a spirit realm, and good and evil spirits, but had no idea of the two spiritual kingdoms at war with one another.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Yes but they did not know who the serpent was.

Did David know who Satan was?
How about the prophets?
Were they in ignorance as well?

How about those who read the writings of the prophets?
They too remained in ignorance until the time of the NT?

I dont think so.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
So you disagree that God is all good? You believe that God brings good and evil?
That means you think Jesus is wrong? The Epistles are wrong?

1 John 1:5-6

5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
NKJV

Mark 10:18-19
So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
NKJV

God is in control of all evil and good. If evil happens then it is God that allows it.

That is in the writings of the prophets.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Did David know who Satan was?
How about the prophets?
Were they in ignorance as well?

How about those who read the writings of the prophets?
They too remained in ignorance until the time of the NT?

I dont think so.

You jumped before my edit.
They did not know all there is to know, it was concealed.

Originally posted by Rajk999
God is in control of all evil and good. If evil happens then it is God that allows it.

That is in the writings of the prophets.

If God "lets" evil happen, then he is evil. I don't think so.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
If God "lets" evil happen, then he is evil. I don't think so.

Its not a matter what you think it is about what the Bible says

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me:
I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
(Isaiah 45:5-7 KJV)

There are more passages like that .. just cannot put my hand on it right now.

There is one that says "is there an evil in the streets? I the Lord has done it" .. or something along those lines.

Also there are many passages in the writings of the prophets where God says "I will bring evil upon ..... xyz"

Originally posted by checkbaiter
You jumped before my edit.
They did not know all there is to know, it was concealed.

I mentioned to you before that it is useful to read some of Jewish literature. Had you done that you would see that to conclude that in OT times they did not appreciate who Satan [or the Devil, or the Serpent] was or that God did not reveal this to them, was totally incorrect.

Its hilarous to see modern day writers who clearly know nothing of Jewish history and literature make this childish conclusions about the Jews and what they knew or did not know.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Its not a matter what you think it is about what the Bible says

[i]I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me:
I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
I form the light, and create darkne ...[text shortened]... many passages in the writings of the prophets where God says "I will bring evil upon ..... xyz"

Just a quick search showed me this....but I have seen better...
Occasionally someone will quote Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) and claim it proves God made evil as a part of His creation: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things" (emphasis added).

But the New American Standard Bible gives the sense of Isaiah 45:6-7 more clearly: "There is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, the One forming light and creating darkness, causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these." In other words, God devises calamity as a judgment for the wicked. But in no sense is He the author of evil.

http://www.gty.org/resources/articles/A189/is-god-responsible-for-evil

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Just a quick search showed me this....but I have seen better...
[b]Occasionally someone will quote Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) and claim it proves God made evil as a part of His creation: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things" (emphasis added).

But the New American Standard Bible gives the sense o ...[text shortened]... he author of evil.

http://www.gty.org/resources/articles/A189/is-god-responsible-for-evil[/b]

What is "author of evil"?
How is that different from what the KJV says that God says that He creates evil?

I dont get it. Neither do you otherwise you would be more clear.
But you just dropped that line and ran away..

Explain it.

Originally posted by Rajk999
What is "author of evil"?
How is that different from what the KJV says that God says that He creates evil?

I dont get it. Neither do you otherwise you would be more clear.
But you just dropped that line and ran away..

Explain it.

You saw me running? Wow' you are an exceptional being.
Evil (rah) can just as easily be translated calamity.
Don't you know what "author" means?
God created Lucifer, but he did not create him evil.
He became evil all by himself. He is the author of evil.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
You saw me running? Wow' you are an exceptional being.
Evil (rah) can just as easily be translated calamity.
Don't you know what "author" means?
God created Lucifer, but he did not create him evil.
He became evil all by himself. He is the author of evil.

Well that proves the same thing Im saying which is that God is in control of both good and evil. It does not matter who does it.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Well that proves the same thing Im saying which is that God is in control of both good and evil. It does not matter who does it.

So, if my son kills you, I am responsible? Are you a liberal?