Two Views of Human Government

Originally posted by sonship
Every one who is saved is with me in my church.
There is only one [b] universal church.

In pulpits usually people politely give the speaker the floor.
This forum, as everybody can see, quite nicely accomodates hecklers, debaters, scrutinizers, people who can just change the subject, contrarians, mockers, trolls, whiners, comedians.

Far from a "p ...[text shortened]... it passively in a pew and not voice their own little message.

Maybe you didn't notice that ??[/b]

Taking a side-swipe at me with all these names will not detract from you plagiarism sonship. It is poor forum etiquette and quite dishonest to present here as your own and without reference, the ministries, messages, teachings or sermons which originate elsewhere and by someone else.

Originally posted by sonship
You mean it will be a cold day in hell before you receive any instruction ?
That is possible.

This a poor effort to make this issue about me. Please just have the decency to acknowledge the sources of the ministries and messages you present in here. Thank you.

Originally posted by divegeester
This a poor effort to make this issue about me. Please just have the decency to acknowledge the sources of the ministries and messages you present in here. Thank you.

You are being a distraction. Back to the topic for me.

Originally posted by sonship
Back to the topic for me.

Assuming you subscribe to the material in the OP, how do you defend a perspective that is so profoundly misanthropic and so utterly contemptuous of your fellow humans?

Now we definitely see that Christ will come and obliterate ALL forms of man's human government. He is the stone cut out without hands which strikes the grand image on the toes, scatters them like chafe, and grows incessantly to be a great mountain to fill the whole earth.

Goodbye Roman empire, Greek empire, Medo-Persian and Babylonian Empires.
Goodbye American empire.
Goodbye Chinese empire.
Goodbye British, Russian, French, Ghanaian, Sudanese governments.
Goodbye Spain government,Mexican government, Canadian government, New Zealand government, Iran government, Pakistan government, German government ,etc. etc. etc.

Daniels interpretation includes this recollection and its interpretation.

" And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will raise up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and its reign will not be left to another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms; and it will stand forever." (Dan. 2:44)

1.) "Those days" are the last days of this age. Specifically the last three and one half years of this age before the coming of the millennial kingdom with Christ's return to earth.

2.) The kingdom that God will raise up will be the millennial kingdom of one thousand years. But it will extend beyond that special time as well into eternity.

3.) Some peoples will be left alive and be transferred from this present age into that millennial kingdom age. This can be seen elsewhere in the Bible. And people will continue to be born too.

4.) The kingdom will not be left to another people because the possessors of the kingdom have eternal life. To their descendants they do not leave it because the have been made like angels on heaven and die no more nor marry and bear children any more.

They have glorified, transfigured resurrection bodies of divine splendor.

Matthew 22:29-30

"And Jesus answered and said to them, You err, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.

For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven."

Human governments and human empires will be destroyed and the kingdom of the earth is given to the saints of Christ. So today believers need preparation by learning to rule especially over their OWN fallen natures via the Holy Spirit.

Here is the cry in Revelation 11 that this has taken place.

" And the seventh angel trumpeted; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,

The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever.

... We than You, Lord God the Almighty, He who is and who was, because You have taken Your great power and have reigned. " (Rev. 11:15,16b)

Notice the here it leaves out "and is to come" from the formula "He who is and who was ...". That is because Christ is HERE by this time physically upon the planet.

Going on ...

"Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to give the reward to Your slaves the prophets and to the saints and to those who fear Your name, to the small and to the great,

and to destroy those who destroy the earth." (See Rev. 11:18)

Originally posted by FMF
Assuming you subscribe to the material in the OP, how do you defend a perspective that is so profoundly misanthropic and so utterly contemptuous of your fellow humans?

I am contemptuous of those who oppose the kingdom of God.
Christ died for my fellow man.

Eagerness for Christ to bring in a lasting righteousness and peace and justice on earth does not constituted contemptuousness toward my fellow man.

On the contrary. As I read the newspaper I all the more long for "the Desire of all the nations" (Haggai 2:7) to come.

Do you wish for Christ to stay away or not exist? Then the one contemptuous of his fellow man must be you.

Originally posted by sonship
Do you wish for Christ to stay away or not exist? Then the one contemptuous of his fellow man must be you.

It's not about what I "wish". I don't believe the claims you make about Christ.

Those who live for and unto the divine administration are not contemptuous of their fellow man. Rather they mourn for righteousness on the earth.

" Blessed are those who mourn, for theirs is the kingdom of the heavens." (Matt. 5:3)

These people open the newspaper and just mourn and decide to give themselves all the more in every part of their being to the King Jesus Christ.

Those who hunger and thirst for the righteousness that comes from being ruled by Jesus Christ will be satisfied and enter into the coming millennial kingdom age.

"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied." (Matt. 5:6)

We can turn our whole souls over to the Lord Jesus Christ in sure expectation that we shall be satisfied. That is not only personally satisfied but satisfied to see God's administration replace the corrupt ones of fallen mankind.

How satisfying it will be and now is to know grumblers like FMF have no answers. Christ is the answer. Christ prepares Himself a people to reign with Him as they exercise through the Holy Spirit to reign over their own fallen sinful natures in the church age.

Originally posted by sonship
Eagerness for Christ to bring in a lasting righteousness and peace and justice on earth does not constituted contemptuousness toward my fellow man.

But don't you believe that the billions and billions of non-believers - rightfully, "perfectly" even - are going to have their lives, their children, their parents, families, their communities and the world around them destroyed and then they are going to be tortured in flames forever? For you to anticipate this, to hope for this, to want this to happen, seems to me to be about as contemptuousness toward your fellow humans as you can get.

Originally posted by sonship
I am contemptuous of those who oppose the kingdom of God.
Christ died for my fellow man.

those who oppose the kingdom of God

By this are you referring to all the people with different beliefs from you?

Now because some are always eager to misunderstand biblical things, we must add that God instituted human government even though such a situation has surely been abused.

There was a period of true libertarian anarchy. Everyone was to do what was right. Then that period in history ended with the chaos of the time of Noah when man's imagination was only evil continuously.

The flood of judgment came from God. And afterwards God instituted human government. The idea appears to me to be that those who did heed their conscience should have some authority over those who did not heed their conscience - in principle.

Here is the verse showing that human government was instituted by God after the flood of Noah.

"Whoever sheds man's blood, By man shall his blood be shed, For in the image of God He made man. " (Gen. 9:6)

Previously, no one, but NO ONE was permitted to take vengeance on Cain for murdering Abel. A mark was put on Cain. But no one was allowed to take his life. That was before the decline of society into the dark ages of the flood.

Afterwards God ordained that human government should regulate the amount of chaotic evil upon the earth. This was the principle of God. And we are to respect the principle of God. But the fact of the matter is that human governing of men has also been abused by fallen man.

Originally posted by FMF
[b]those who oppose the kingdom of God

By this are you referring to all the people with different beliefs from you?[/b]

By this question you are suggesting rampant sectarianism to those who believe in the believable Jesus Christ?

By this question you are implying that there really is no truth ?

So you are using magnanimity to cloak the love of rebellion against God ?

Originally posted by sonship
By this question you are suggesting rampant sectarianism to those who believe in the believable Jesus Christ?

By this question you are implying that there really is no truth ?

So you are using magnanimity to cloak the love of rebellion against God ?

By this question I am asking you if you are referring to all the people in the world with different beliefs from you when you use the phrase "those who oppose the kingdom of God"?

Originally posted by FMF
By this question I am asking you if you are referring to all the people in the world with different beliefs from you when you use the phrase "those who oppose the kingdom of God"?

If you want an answer so bad, you labor a bit and paste in where I used the phrase "who oppose the kingdom of God". You do some work so I can see the context in which I wrote that phrase.

Your easy job of yelping along the sidelines like a little barking dog are over with me.
Put in some work and show me where I used the phrase.
Then I'll explain my usage of the phrase (as if you really wanted clarity).

Originally posted by sonship
Your easy job of yelping along the sidelines like a little barking dog are over with me.

Far from it. What I am asking you strikes to the very heart of the credibility of what you are claiming.