weeping and gnashing of teeth

Originally posted by dj2becker
Are you saying it is your subjective opinion that his ideology is absolute moral darkness and incoherence or are you stating a universal truth?

We have already discussed this aspect of belief ~ you were posting as Fetchmyjunk at the time. Why are you asking me again - as if we haven't?

Originally posted by KellyJay

Of course the plucking out of our eye or the cutting off of our hand would not save us from these sins. It should not be taken literally. A gambler did this and found that the lust for gambling was still with him even with the hand gone.

But the New Testament says that we can put to death the PRACTICES of the body by means of the power of the Holy Spirit.

" For if you live according to the flesh you must die, but if you by the Spirit put to death the practices of the body, you will live." (Rom. 8:13)

The virtual amputation so as to participate in the kingdom reigning is from utilizing the Spirit to put to death the practices of the sinful members. In fact we see Paul saying this is virtually putting to death those besetting sins with the members.

"Put to death therefore your MEMBERS which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and greediness, which is idolatry,

Because of which things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience." (Col. 3:5,6)

The very members are so closely identified with the sins.
OF course this putting to death has to be firmly grounded in our accepting that we have died and been raised with Christ. This is apprehended by faith. Back up.

"Set your mind on the things which are above, not on the things which are on the earth.

For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ our life is manifested then you also will be manifested with Him in glory." (Col. 3:2-4)

We died with Christ. This revelation is the power that enables grace to bring into check the members of our body by faith.

Here again much in Romans 6 the virtual amputation is the application of Christ's death to the old man.

" Knowing this, that our old man has been crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be annulled, that we should no longer serve sin as slaves;

For he who has died is justified from sin." (Rom. 6:6,7)

Here we have a practical justification by co-death with Christ.

Developing this skill the believer does not just nullify the sinful practices of the body but causes his or her members to become "weapons of righteousness".

"Do not let sin therefore reign in your mortal body so that you obey the body's lusts;

Neither present your members as weapons of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as alive from the dead, and your members as weapons of righteousness to God." (Rom. 6:12,13)

So we don't take a power saw to our hands or gouge out our eyes or take a hatchet to our feet as Christians. But we believe and stand on the revelation, that in Christ we have died with Him and been raised with Him. His death in something in the Holy Spirit to kill off many "germs" in the old living.

This amputation is therefore part of the ingredients of the Holy Spirit. He can deal with the innermost motive of sin down to the quantum level of our imagination and will and desires. - Down, down to the very motive of such errors with a truly inside job.

Originally posted by FMF
We have already discussed this aspect of belief ~ you were posting as Fetchmyjunk at the time. Why are you asking me again - as if we haven't?

Because you seem to have forgotten that you don't believe in universal truth. Since you don't, your subjective opinion can't be any more valid than Sonships opinions. Assuming that universal truth does not exist, Sonship is just as entitled to his beliefs as you are to yours. As is Nazi Germany and ISIS to their opinions.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Because you seem to have forgotten that you don't believe in universal truth. Since you don't, your subjective opinion can't be any more valid than Sonships opinions. Assuming that universal truth does not exist, Sonship is just as entitled to his beliefs as you are to yours. As is Nazi Germany and ISIS to their opinions.

I refer you to my previous contributions to the discussion on these issues.

Originally posted by apathist
Your children are safe with me, but I am secular.

Am I doomed to hell, kelly.

My children are safe with me, but I like your statement. We live in a fallen world, a world
void of its creator where we walk out our lives in the desires of our hearts to fulfill them.
Scripture tells us that as sinners we are in danger of dying in our sins, all of us without
exception since none of us are good enough on our own. It also teaches us that God saw
we could not by following the law get right, so He made a way, Jesus.

It is very clear in scripture, that God loves us, and wants us saved therefore Jesus came.
We need saved, because we cannot get right on our own. It isn't believe or else, it is grab
the life line thrown to us or not. Our sins will condemn us because they are evil, Christ
because of God's love for us can set us free of sin, and present us before God clean.

So without Jesus you are condemn already, yes as all are without Christ.


John 3:17-19King James Version (KJV)
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Sonship is just as entitled to his beliefs as you are to yours.

I have never once said otherwise in all my years here in this community.

Originally posted by sonship
Of course the plucking out of our eye or the cutting off of our hand would not save us from these sins. It should not be taken literally. A gambler did this and found that the lust for gambling was still with him even with the hand gone.

But the New Testament says that we can put to death the PRACTICES of the body by means of the power of the Holy Spirit ...[text shortened]... on and will and desires. - Down, down to the very motive of such errors with a truly inside job.

Well said.

Originally posted by FMF
I refer you to my previous contributions to the discussion on these issues.

I refer you to my point above that is valid regardless of contributions you may or may not have previously made.

Originally posted by FMF
I have never once said otherwise in all my years here in this community.

So if you think his views are just as valid as yours what is your agenda here?

Do you believe Nazi Germany and ISIS are also just as entitled to their opinions as you are to yours?

Originally posted by dj2becker
So if you think his views are just as valid as yours what is your agenda here?

You asked questions similar to this when you were posting as Fetchmyjunk. Refer to my answers back then. sonship is entitled to express his personal opinions on this forum about the morality of never ending torture. I have never suggested otherwise.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Do you believe Nazi Germany and ISIS are also just as entitled to their opinions as you are to yours?

We went over all this when you were Fetchmyjunk. Don't pretend we didn't.

Originally posted by dj2becker
So if you think his views are just as valid as yours what is your agenda here?

Debate and discussion.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Well said.

Do you remember a thread I started long ago on the Ointment made in Exodus ?
I went into detail about the measurements of the substances that went into the creation of the anointing ointment.

The typology I learned from others. I never saw it myself. But the symbolism showed clearly how the death of Christ is part of the very ingredients of the Holy Spirit.

Sometime I may revisit that profound matter because it has been so very helpful to many Christians who have seen it. In the Holy Spirit is the terminating power, the putting to death of many negative things.

The very killing power to kill off negative things ins in the all-inclusive Spirit of Christ.

Originally posted by dj2becker
...you seem to have forgotten that you don't believe in universal truth.

But I have not forgotten what I believe about "universal truth". Indeed, it seems to be you who has "forgotten".

Originally posted by FMF
You asked questions similar to this when you were posting as Fetchmyjunk. Refer to my answers back then. sonship is entitled to express his personal opinions on this forum about the morality of never ending torture. I have never suggested otherwise.

Why do you think he is entitled to his view of never ending torture? Are ISIS entitled to their views as well?