03 Dec 15
Originally posted by Rajk999It's not shocking at all my friend. I have watched you guys go at it back and forth in many different threads and it seems to be more of a pet peeve with you then anything else. Personally it is an argument I prefer not to enter into because I don't consider myself an authority on the matter one way of another. God looks at the heart and because of your professions may find you, sonship and checkbaiter justified. As you have said often, that is up to God.
It is really shocking that you have not read on this forum that Christians like sonship and checkbaiter have constantly stated that it is their belief, that as soon as a man professes his faith in Christ with his mouth, he is saved eternally and can under no circumstances lose that eternal life. If the man sins all that he looses are whatever rewards that he may have accrued but his eternal life is intact and will one day enter the Kingdom of God.
It does bother me at times that there is so much strive amongst believers in this forum over the littlest things the important matters go undiscussed.
You seem to me to be very legalistic in your thinking with little to no room for grace for others or differing opinions from your own. A question I have for you, could you be wrong about a thing, and how would you know it if you were? We all make mistakes and sin, your sin, my sin, and all sin will lead to death had there been no propitiation through Jesus, thank God because of Jesus I don't get what I deserve.
Have you committed any sins since God chose you and you responded?
Originally posted by yoctobyteSomething is missing from your ability to read and understand.... I dont have the patience to explain.
It's not shocking at all my friend. I have watched you guys go at it back and forth in many different threads and it seems to be more of a pet peeve with you then anything else. Personally it is an argument I prefer not to enter into because I don't consider myself an authority on the matter one way of another. God looks at the heart and because of your ...[text shortened]... don't get what I deserve.
Have you committed any sins since God chose you and you responded?
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03 Dec 15
Originally posted by twhiteheadI think you are absolutely spot on. It's nice to agree with you on occasion.
It should lead to no more cognitive dissonance for a Christian than it does for an atheist. I too believe that I should not do most things Christians would regard as sin, and I too believe that there are no consequences for me after death.
I actually think that the nicest interpretation (not necessarily the one he intended) of Jesus' message is that one ...[text shortened]... h I did not require religious doctrine. I am of course hardly unique in holding that philosophy.
Jesus said: love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind. Deep reverence for God which I know you don't have. However he went on to say, love your neighbour as yourself. The law and the prophets hang on this. In other words, everything hangs on this.
Originally posted by divegeesterHe also said a number of other things that strongly suggested that actual love and actual care mattered more than pretending to love or care in the hope of a reward. My favourite challenge is to ask a theist if they would give up their place in heaven for someone else. A genuinely loving empathetic person would. Someone who is 'loving' for selfish reasons would not. (I don't claim to be that loving, but I suspect Jesus was asking that of people).
Jesus said: love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind. Deep reverence for God which I know you don't have. However he went on to say, love your neighbour as yourself. The law and the prophets hang on this. In other words, everything hangs on this.
Edit: I am of course talking about the Jesus of the gospels who I believe to be a fictional character.
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03 Dec 15
Originally posted by twhiteheadI did smile at your edit / disclaimer.
He also said a number of other things that strongly suggested that actual love and actual care mattered more than pretending to love or care in the hope of a reward. My favourite challenge is to ask a theist if they would give up their place in heaven for someone else. A genuinely loving empathetic person would. Someone who is 'loving' for selfish reasons ...[text shortened]... I am of course talking about the Jesus of the gospels who I believe to be a fictional character.
Yes, that is an interesting one and something I've thought about over the years. I have no answer; I wouldn't give up my place, at least not for a stranger, but I think I would for a loved one.
Originally posted by Rajk999Well that is a fairly rude response. Questions I have put to you in the past, which might have spoken to you personally have been met with the response "I don't answer personal questions" or something like that (maybe not those exact words). The question I was seeking an answer to...
Well I have to say pal, that there is a serious mental deficiency somewhere in your brain. You have asked me these very same questions several times in other threads and I have answered. Please read those threads again. thanks
Have you committed any sins since God chose you and you responded? Easy.
Personally, I don't recall having ever asked you this exact question, perhaps I did... my apologies if I have and don't remember... not my intent to pester. It is however pertinent and I feel would speak to your point. But if you don't want to answer this question, fine by me. I'll accept that.
03 Dec 15
Originally posted by 667joeI've only heard that idea from American Protestants and I assume it's a minority position amongst them, the Roman Catholic Church and the Anglicans don't believe that, for them salvation is conditional. Christian doctrine does say that there is no sin so great it cannot be forgiven, but for that one has to repent and the repentance has to be genuine. I think those who think they are immune to divine punishment for their actions haven't understood their own religion.
Christian doctrine states that if you believe in Jesus, you will be forgiven for your sins. Murder is a sin. If you believe in Jesus, you will be forgiven for murder. Mr. Dear therefore thought murder is OK. This is the doctrine of vicarious redemption which of course is totally immoral and this is what makes the Christianity dangerous. Again, only the person you sin against can forgive you, not a third party (Jesus).
Originally posted by 667joeChristianity isn't dangerous, sinners are. People use everything they can to justify their
Christian doctrine states that if you believe in Jesus, you will be forgiven for your sins. Murder is a sin. If you believe in Jesus, you will be forgiven for murder. Mr. Dear therefore thought murder is OK. This is the doctrine of vicarious redemption which of course is totally immoral and this is what makes the Christianity dangerous. Again, only the person you sin against can forgive you, not a third party (Jesus).
wants, desires, needs, likes, dislikes, hate, and everything else that makes them who they
are.
I do agree with you that there are people who justify their evil deeds and attempt to use
God as an excuse. There are those that do evil deeds with the full intent to later go to
God and ask forgiveness but their whole life is really bent on evil not God, they are just
attempting to use God's grace as an out of Hell free card in this life to be used at a later
date.
None of those things changes that God sent Jesus to us to redeem us, that Jesus came
lived as one of us and gave His life for us, that He rose from the dead, that God's Holy
Spirit is now here for those that belong to God. So yes there will be murders who are
saved and forgiven while so called "good people" by our standards will end up in Hell
forever. Reason being when Christ died He died for all of us, and some of the best of us
by our standards will be on their way to Hell and some of the worst of us will not be, and
the reason for that is, it isn't by human standards but by God's grace we are saved.
Anyone who wishes to live a life of sin will do so, those that actually turn to God for God's
grace and mercy is free to do so. God will sort it all out in the end. Which should cause
us to fear and respect Him, because there is none that can deliver out of His hand, and
no one will be justified before Him in their own righteousness.
03 Dec 15
Originally posted by yoctobyteI accept your apology.
Well that is a fairly rude response. Questions I have put to you in the past, which might have spoken to you personally have been met with the response "I don't answer personal questions" or something like that (maybe not those exact words). The question I was seeking an answer to...
Have you committed any sins since God chose you and you responded? ...[text shortened]... ak to your point. But if you don't want to answer this question, fine by me. I'll accept that.
03 Dec 15
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadJames and John, the sons of Zebedee, spoke thusly 'Grant that one of us may take his place on thy right and the other on thy left, when thou art glorified.' Jesus says, 'it is for those for whom it has been destined'. And in biblical translations He says greatness comes from greatness. (I don't believe he condemned all positions of authority, just persons). He also said He did not come to be served but to serve the many, the first will be last, etc. Basically, the hierarchy is not the same in heaven.
My favourite challenge is to ask a theist if they would give up their place in heaven for someone else. A genuinely loving empathetic person would. Someone who is 'loving' for selfish reasons would not.
Edit: I am of course talking about the Jesus of the gospels who I believe to be a fictional character.