03 Dec 15
Originally posted by twhiteheadI also believe that is a nice interpretation of Jesus' message. But if Jesus feels the need to warn of the possibility that one reaps what they sow not only physically but also spiritually, I am not going to ignore that possibility.
It should lead to no more cognitive dissonance for a Christian than it does for an atheist. I too believe that I should not do most things Christians would regard as sin, and I too believe that there are no consequences for me after death.
I actually think that the nicest interpretation (not necessarily the one he intended) of Jesus' message is that one ...[text shortened]... h I did not require religious doctrine. I am of course hardly unique in holding that philosophy.
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04 Dec 15
2 edits
Originally posted by 667joeWhy would you say that?
It's clear you are the one with the problem(s)!!!!
I'm as happy as a pig in poo mate. Very much in the statistical norm, decent fairly senior level job, married for over 25 years (to the same person), home owner, football fan and Chelsea supporter, like science fiction, (I'll let you have the SiFi bit to make one of your jokes out of) and cutting the grass. Don't go to church as it sucks, anti-corporate religion, an independent Christian who makes his own way through the religious mumbo-jumbo. And not a Kalashnikov in sight.
You?
Originally posted by KellyJaySo can we take it that it is your claim that Christianity and its teachings has not affected your behaviour in any way but rather you have in fact merely used it as an excuse to justify your behaviour? Because that appears to be what you are claiming although I suspect you will suddenly see your error once it is couched in terms of your own behaviour rather than someone elses.
Christianity isn't dangerous, sinners are. People use everything they can to justify their
wants, desires, needs, likes, dislikes, hate, and everything else that makes them who they are.
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Originally posted by 667joeIf you are looking for contemporary examples of religions that tell their followers to kill people, you may be able to find some much better examples than Christianity on which to grind your axe.
Again, most Christians are decent and would not murder. I am saying, however, that certain Christian doctrine apparently made it easier for Mr. Dear to proceed with his mass shooting.
Originally posted by divegeesterI doubt that.
If you are looking for contemporary examples of religions that tell their followers to kill people, you may be able to find some much better examples than Christianity on which to grind your axe.
Let us not forget that much of the troubles in the Middle East were caused by God telling Bush (a Christian) to go and attack Iraq.
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05 Dec 15
2 edits
Originally posted by twhiteheadAmerica didn't begin military conflict in the Middle East because George Bush was a Christian. He's also not a religious leader. Are you ignoring the current strife caused by Islam deliberately to make a point?
I doubt that.
Let us not forget that much of the troubles in the Middle East were caused by God telling Bush (a Christian) to go and attack Iraq.
Originally posted by divegeesterMaybe not, but it clearly played a part. He certainly claimed it was the key reason. Are you saying he lied?
America didn't begin military conflict in the Middle East because George Bush was a Christian.
He's also not a religious leader.
He's not a leader of religion, but he was a leader and was religious.
Are you ignoring the current strife caused by Islam deliberately to make a point?
In what way am I ignoring anything? Keep in mind two things:
1. You initially declined to mention exactly which religion you were referring to.
2. I was pointing out an example from within Christianity of a religion apparently telling its follower to kill people. I don't see how this can be construed as ignoring something to do with Islam.
And in what way is there 'current strife caused by Islam'?
Are you sure the current strife is 'caused by Islam'? Evidence please.
Remember that it is your claim that there are better examples than Christianity (presumably you mean Islam) of religions telling their followers to kill people. I dispute that. I do not think that Islam is any more guilty of telling its followers to kill people than Christianity is. Both religions are responsible for extreme violence both past and present.
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05 Dec 15
Originally posted by twhiteheadI said "contemporary". I agree both religions are equally barbaric over time.
Maybe not, but it clearly played a part. He certainly claimed it was the key reason. Are you saying he lied?
[b]He's also not a religious leader.
He's not a leader of religion, but he was a leader and was religious.
Are you ignoring the current strife caused by Islam deliberately to make a point?
In what way am I ignoring anything? Keep ...[text shortened]... than Christianity is. Both religions are responsible for extreme violence both past and present.[/b]
Why are you pretending you haven't heard of Islamic state and their call to all Islam, the barbarism, the murders, kidnappings, Is this some kind of odd debating tactic by you?
Im sure Bush lied about many things. I have zero respect for him or right wing Christian rhetoric. I am against religious violence no matter who is to blame. I'm just curious that Joe uses Christianity in all his examples in various threads. Similarly with you, you always choose Christianity. I don't think I've ever seen you attack any other religion - my apologies if I'm wrong.
Originally posted by divegeesterAnd I gave you a contemporary example and can give you many more.
I said "contemporary". I agree both religions are equally barbaric over time.
Why are you pretending you haven't heard of Islamic state and their call to all Islam, the barbarism, the murders, kidnappings, Is this some kind of odd debating tactic by you?
Why are you pretending that I am pretending not to have heard of the Islamic state etc? I pretended no such thing nor even hinted at it.
Im sure Bush lied about many things. I have zero respect for him or right wing Christian rhetoric.
We are not discussing what respect you have for it, we are discussing whether or not it exists.
I'm just curious that Joe uses Christianity in all his examples in various threads.
Then be curious. What you actually said, was that there were examples 'much better'. If you want to prove your case you will have to do better than pretending that I am pretending to not have heard of the Islamic state. You must also stop pretending not to have heard of Bush and all the other Christian leaders that are involved in the wars in the Middle east and carry out plenty of killing.
Similarly with you, you always choose Christianity. I don't think I've ever seen you attack any other religion - my apologies if I'm wrong.
You are wrong. It must be noted that there are practically no representatives of other religions on this forum to discuss religion with. When they have been, I have attacked their beliefs. (I am not sure if Dasa's beliefs count as a religion or just the ravings of a mad man).
I think you also need to realize that terrorism is a tactic of desperation used by a group that is in a position of weakness. Have you ever asked yourself who the aggressor is and why terrorist are driven to commit such desperate acts?
Here are some groups you are pretending not to know about:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism
(note that I am following your useage of 'pretending not to know' as meaning 'something you know that you didn't happen to mention in the post even though it wasn't relevant' )
05 Dec 15
Originally posted by divegeesterI think Dasa is the only non-Christian theist who posts here. So confining his comments to Christianity is just to confine his comments to the religion relevant to those theists who post here. Aside from which he may not feel competent to comment on other religions.
I said "contemporary". I agree both religions are equally barbaric over time.
Why are you pretending you haven't heard of Islamic state and their call to all Islam, the barbarism, the murders, kidnappings, Is this some kind of odd debating tactic by you?
Im sure Bush lied about many things. I have zero respect for him or right wing Christian rhe ...[text shortened]... tianity. I don't think I've ever seen you attack any other religion - my apologies if I'm wrong.
05 Dec 15
1 edit
For the record, I am an atheist and I think all religions are silly frauds. In the past week, we have proof of the dangers of Christianity and Islam when taken to the extreme. Also, for the record, the vast majority if Christians ans Muslims are decent and harmless. I also think the USA should take in Syrian refugees.
05 Dec 15
Originally posted by 667joeFor something to be a fraud, you would have to have something legitimate, wouldn't you? What would that be? There is no 'proof' of the dangers of Christianity or Islam as you assert... and as you have rightly stated "the vast majority" of Christians and Muslims are decent and harmless. The folks that have perpetrated the crimes on society, mainly Planned Parenthood and in California were full of hate and somebody was going to pay... and that is it.
For the record, I am an atheist and I think all religions are silly frauds. In the past week, we have proof of the dangers of Christianity and Islam when taken to the extreme. Also, for the record, the vast majority if Christians ans Muslims are decent and harmless. I also think the USA should take in Syrian refugees.
What amazes me is that we will now analyze the crimes to death to determine whether or not this was an act of 'terrorism'.
On dictionary.com the definition of terrorism is the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.. We can add in there creating fear to subdue.
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05 Dec 15
Originally posted by 667joeI completely agree that all religious beliefs are dangerous when taken to extreme. Some when not taken to the extreme of murder, just denying blood transfusions for example. I also agree that big religious organisations are largely fraudulent (morally if not legally), fiscally and doctrinally. I also agree that the vast majority of Christians, Muslims and even JWs are decent and harmless. As are most atheists.
For the record, I am an atheist and I think all religions are silly frauds. In the past week, we have proof of the dangers of Christianity and Islam when taken to the extreme. Also, for the record, the vast majority if Christians ans Muslims are decent and harmless. I also think the USA should take in Syrian refugees.
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05 Dec 15
Originally posted by 667joeAgreed. Burning people at the stake is dangerous. Evil people do evil things in the name of religion, good people do good things in the name of religion (God). Many of these things would still happen if religion didn't exist. I sometimes think that if all religion was banned, including Christianity the world would be a better place, just until people found another reason to kill each other.
Religion is a fraud because there is no proof that god exists. I wish you could ask any of the men or women burned at the stake at the hands of the Inquisition if Christianity is dangerous!