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  1. Subscribermoonbus
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    22 Nov '19 17:41
    @wolfgang59 said
    If you can't trust a politician who can you trust? .............................
    This just in . . .


    https://www.theonion.com/congress-approves-3-billion-in-military-aid-for-netany-1839987688
  2. Subscribermoonbus
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    22 Nov '19 08:51
    @mott-the-hoople said
    "“AMBAS GORDON SUNDLAND SAYS WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM UKRAINE. I KEEP HEARING ALL THESE DIFFERENT IDEAS AND THEORIES. WHAT DO YOU WANT. IT WAS A VERY SHORT, ABRUPT CONVERSATION. HE WAS NOT IN A GOOD MOOD. HE JUST SAID…I WANT NOTHING. I WANT NOTHING. I WANT NO QUID PRO QUO. TELL ZELLINSKY TO DO THE RIGHT THING. THIS IS THE FINAL WORD FROM THE PRES OF THE U.S,”"

    https:/ ...[text shortened]... re opinion...AFTER hotels were boycotted at direction of democrat senator.

    Still not proof of QPQ
    Still not necessary to prove QPQ.
  3. Subscribermoonbus
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    21 Nov '19 17:53
    @mott-the-hoople said
    LMFAO..."blinkers"
    blinker |ˈbliNGkər|
    noun
    1 a device that blinks, especially a vehicle's turn signal.
    2 (blinkers) another term for blinders.
    verb [ with obj. ]
    put blinders on (a horse).
    • cause (someone) to have a narrow or limited outlook on a situation.
  4. Subscribermoonbus
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    21 Nov '19 17:52
    @tobias9122 said
    DNC Drops Putrid Fundraising Numbers In Middle Of Debate

    Anyone with a brain can understand why fund raising numbers are so low,, Democrats distracted by their hatred of Trump, just the fact he beat their highly favored candidate, put them in a mode of destroy trump, rather than working to solve the current issues that face us. Sad to see but a fact that can't be argued ...[text shortened]... usual...
    And yes, I am gloating, Trump is killing them with hie campaign contributions,, Whaa :-)
    The current issue which faces America was pointedly made by Ms Hill in her testimony: the Mueller investigation uncovered a concerted and deliberate attack by a foreign power on America's democratic process, an attack which is on-going and even now gearing up for 2020. Trump is not merely blind to it, he's supporting it by subverting the diplomatic and intelligence institutions best able to counter it.

    Impeachment is no joke. It is American democracy functioning as intended by the founders, deliberately and with due process of law. In Russia and China there is no impeachment process; when the corruption and the lies and the incompetence get intolerable, there is a putsch, if anyone dares.
  5. Subscribermoonbus
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    21 Nov '19 15:03
    @mott-the-hoople said
    first...you need to prove quid pro quo
    No. It is not necessary to prove quid pro quo. Soliciting a foreign power to influence an election is treasonable enough.

    Soliciting a foreign power to publicly announce an investigation is not any sort of genuine investigation into corruption, as any criminal investigator will tell you. When criminal investigators go after someone, they don't frigging publicly announce it. They go about it quietly, so they don't tip off the suspects (who would otherwise try to hide the evidence). DUH !

    Trying to get a foreign power to publicly announce an investigation has one and only one purpose: to besmirch someone's reputation, character assassination. Trump's MO all along. Plain as day.
  6. Subscribermoonbus
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    21 Nov '19 09:511 edit
    mghrn55 wrote:

    At stake going forward will be the credibility of the Senate if they don’t vote to remove Trump from office.

    Pence may not be all that safe either.

    President Pelosi, anyone ??



    Here's how I think it's going to play out:

    1. Credible evidence from unimpeachable sources of impeachable behavior mounts, . . .

    2. including not only abuse of power in the Ukraine affair, but also of obstruction of justice (withholding Sondland's correspondence, causing evidence to disappear, etc.).

    3. Public pressure mounts on Republican senators to confirm the impeachment, should the case come to trial in the Senate.

    4. For party-political reasons, Republican senators are loathe to convict, even when confronted with unimpeachable evidence of impeachable offences, but fearing a public backlash if they fail to reach the obviously correct verdict, . . .

    5. powerful Republicans impress upon Trump that it is in his own best interest to resign before the case comes to trial in the Senate, for the following reasons:

    5a. Resigning allows Trump to leave office unscathed, still trumpeting his innocence, still howling that the whole affair was nothing but Democrats' revenge for the 2016 election, a hoax and a witch-hunt;

    5b. Resigning spares Republican senators the embarrassment of failing to return the obviously correct verdict;

    5c. Resigning before Pence's reputation gets dragged down allows Republicans to keep control of the WH for the rest of the term.

    6. President Pence does a 'Gerald Ford' and pardons his former boss, giving private citizen Trump immunity from prosecution.

    7. President Pence follows Gerald Ford into the oblivion of incumbents who were not re-elected.

    8. Future historians characterize Trump as America's Caligula and his presidency as a bizarre aberration.


    For the record, my predictions. Odds, anyone?
  7. Subscribermoonbus
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    21 Nov '19 08:01
    @jefftx said
    Q: Did President Trump ever tell you personally about any pre-conditions for anything?

    Sondland: No.

    Q: Any pre-conditions for the aid to be released?

    Sondland: No.

    Q: Any pre-conditions for a White House meeting?

    Sondland: Personally, No.
    You have to have blinkers on not to see that Sondland's testimony is damning:


    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/20/politics/gordon-sondland-hearing-takeaways/index.html

    quote:

    In his opening statement and throughout his testimony, Sondland said he was working with Trump's attorney Rudy Giuliani on Ukraine matters at the "express direction of the President of the United States."

    . . .

    Up to this point, a key Republican argument has been that none of the witnesses spoke directly with Trump and they offered only secondhand information. Sondland's testimony about his many conversations with Trump on the matter are crucial to Democrats countering that talking point.

    . . .

    "I know that members of this committee frequently frame these complicated issues in the form of a simple question: Was there a quid pro quo?" Sondland said. "As I testified previously, with regard to the requested White House call and the White House meeting, the answer is yes."

    Sondland later said, "Everyone was in the loop. It was no secret."

    These new comments corroborate testimony from other witnesses and contradict Trump, who has said all along, and repeated Wednesday, that there was no quid pro quo with Ukraine.

    . . .

    During the hearing, Sondland undercut a key Trump defense and simultaneously confirmed a claim from the whistleblower complaint that triggered the impeachment inquiry.
    Zelensky "had to announce the investigations," Sondland said, referring to the probes into Biden's family and the 2016 election. "He didn't actually have to do them, as I understood it."

    Legal experts previously told CNN that this is a critical distinction. Most legitimate investigations are done in secret, so as not to tip off the supposed criminals. But the intense focus on securing a public announcement from Zelensky demonstrates that the scheme was really designed to maximize the political benefit to Trump, instead of a good-faith effort to investigate corruption.

    Whether he meant to or not, Sondland confirmed the thrust of the whistleblower complaint, which said Trump's requests for investigations were meant to help his campaign. Trump has argued that he asked for the probes because he wants to clean up corruption in Ukraine. (There is no evidence of wrongdoing or corruption by the Bidens in Ukraine.)

    end quote

    Finally, the fact that the WH is preventing the witness from accessing his own correspondence in the matter stinks of obstruction of justice. 10:1 those documents get 'accidentally' deleted. It's the missing 18 minutes of Nixon's tapes all over again.
  8. Subscribermoonbus
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    21 Nov '19 07:47
    @no1marauder said
    And as Sondland made clear, the administration remains engaged in a massive cover up, absolutely refusing to release relevant documents even to its own officials:

    ". I have not had access to all of my phone records, State Department emails, and other State Department documents. And I was told I could not work with my EU
    Staff to pull together the relevant files. Havin ...[text shortened]... many others have done." p. 3

    https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000016e-88f1-d93d-ad6f-8ef3ea120000
    It's John Dean all over again. The truth will out.
  9. Subscribermoonbus
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    20 Nov '19 22:53
    @Mott-The-Hoople

    Somebody got through to the witness that perjurers go to jail. That's why.
  10. Subscribermoonbus
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    20 Nov '19 22:47
    @mister-moggy

    Thanks for the memory, Mr. M.
  11. Subscribermoonbus
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    20 Nov '19 12:321 edit
    I second Paul's recommendation. Although not a gambit player myself, one must always be prepared to meet a gambit player. The GFC is an excellent way to hone one's skills.



    EDIT: Endorsement disclaimer: I have not received any gift points from either Paul or BDP.
  12. Subscribermoonbus
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    19 Nov '19 14:16
    @very-rusty said
    Interesting watching Gerty kiss goad's butt! 😉

    -VR
    ". . . watching you watching Gerty watching Goad": material for some college psych student's 3d semester paper.
  13. Subscribermoonbus
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    19 Nov '19 14:13
    @Executioner-Brand

    Kudos. Mind over chemistry.
  14. Subscribermoonbus
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    19 Nov '19 14:13
    @torunn said
    @Suzianne
    Isn't it all about breaking a habit?
    Yes, and it's terribly hard.
  15. Subscribermoonbus
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    19 Nov '19 14:12
    @mister-moggy said
    i usually keep up with my personal hygiene on tuesdays.
    Let me guess: you turn your underpants inside out.
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