Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    14 Oct '17 12:311 edit
    Since it is a given that Progressives have all the best ideas and all truthiness, would it be safe to say that they are the master race?

    They tried to save the world by electing Hillary but failed, but it was not for a lack of numbers. They just could not overcome the regressive electoral college that our slave owning Founding Fathers set up that ended up being our ruin.

    Is there still hope?
  2. Behind the scenes
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    14 Oct '17 13:14
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Since it is a given that Progressives have all the best ideas and all truthiness, would it be safe to say that they are the master race?

    They tried to save the world by electing Hillary but failed, but it was not for a lack of numbers. They just could not overcome the regressive electoral college that our slave owning Founding Fathers set up that ended up being our ruin.

    Is there still hope?
    No Whodey. You are the master race. You have all the answers. 😞
  3. Joined
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    14 Oct '17 15:01
    No. But we don't waste our time claiming to be something that doesn't exist. On the other hand there is a President who thinks he is the divine master. He can claim it because the party he claims to be working with are too weak kneed to try to stop him. The Republicans relish the idea that they will become the master race because they own Capital Hill and the White house but as a party they have become weak-kneed and incoherent. To be a leader involves strength..something Trump appears to have but his would-be support on Capitol Hill do not. If we were the "master race" there wouldn't be a conservative on Capitol Hill and the dictators "executive orders" would all end up in a shredder.
  4. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    14 Oct '17 21:22
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Since ....our ruin.

    Is there still hope?
    Such insight from just one man.
    Whodey - you are an inspiration.
  5. Joined
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    15 Oct '17 11:271 edit
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    Such insight from just one man.
    Whodey - you are an inspiration.
    Thanks, I'm trying to better understand you, as well as my deplorable regressive self.

    So at what point did you realize you were superior to human filth like myself?
  6. Joined
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    15 Oct '17 11:281 edit
    Originally posted by @jim-peet
    No. But we don't waste our time claiming to be something that doesn't exist. On the other hand there is a President who thinks he is the divine master. He can claim it because the party he claims to be working with are too weak kneed to try to stop him. The Republicans relish the idea that they will become the master race because they own Capital Hill ...[text shortened]... onservative on Capitol Hill and the dictators "executive orders" would all end up in a shredder.
    Yes, yes, Trump and the GOP are trying to destroy the world, but only for their own personal greed. Thanks for that. Maybe it's because they are all racists and hate women.

    So how will you stop them? Did the shooter in Virginia have the right idea, or will democracy ultimately save us?
  7. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    15 Oct '17 18:49
    Originally posted by @whodey

    So at what point did you realize you were superior to human filth like myself?
    I don't recall which post of yours it was.
  8. Standard memberfinnegan
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    17 Oct '17 10:43
    https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10925.html

    Nazism triumphed in Germany during the high era of Jim Crow laws in the United States. Did the American regime of racial oppression in any way inspire the Nazis? The unsettling answer is yes. In Hitler's American Model, James Whitman presents a detailed investigation of the American impact on the notorious Nuremberg Laws, the centerpiece anti-Jewish legislation of the Nazi regime. Contrary to those who have insisted that there was no meaningful connection between American and German racial repression, Whitman demonstrates that the Nazis took a real, sustained, significant, and revealing interest in American race policies.

    As Whitman shows, the Nuremberg Laws were crafted in an atmosphere of considerable attention to the precedents American race laws had to offer. German praise for American practices, already found in Hitler's Mein Kampf, was continuous throughout the early 1930s, and the most radical Nazi lawyers were eager advocates of the use of American models. But while Jim Crow segregation was one aspect of American law that appealed to Nazi radicals, it was not the most consequential one. Rather, both American citizenship and antimiscegenation laws proved directly relevant to the two principal Nuremberg Laws—the Citizenship Law and the Blood Law. Whitman looks at the ultimate, ugly irony that when Nazis rejected American practices, it was sometimes not because they found them too enlightened, but too harsh.

    Indelibly linking American race laws to the shaping of Nazi policies in Germany, Hitler's American Model upends understandings of America's influence on racist practices in the wider world.

    James Q. Whitman is the Ford Foundation Professor of Comparative and Foreign Law at Yale Law School.
  9. Standard memberfinnegan
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    17 Oct '17 10:46
    Whitman: American law, hard though it might be for us to accept it now, was a model for everybody in the early 20th century who was interested in creating a race-based order or race state. America was the leader in a whole variety of realms in racist law in the first part of that century. Some of this involved American immigration law, which was designed to exclude so-called “undesirable races” from immigration. In 1924 American immigration law in particular was praised by Hitler himself, in his book Mein Kampf.

    But it wasn’t just about American immigration law. There was also American law creating forms of second-class citizenship — for African-Americans, of course, but also for other populations including Asians, Native Americans, Filipinos and Puerto Ricans. Not least, there were statutes in 30 American states forbidding and sometimes criminalizing interracial marriage. Those were of special interest to the Nazis.
  10. Joined
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    17 Oct '17 12:471 edit
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10925.html

    Nazism triumphed in Germany during the high era of Jim Crow laws in the United States. Did the American regime of racial oppression in any way inspire the Nazis? The unsettling answer is yes. In Hitler's American Model, James Whitman presents a detailed investigation of the American impact on the notorious N ...[text shortened]... s Q. Whitman is the Ford Foundation Professor of Comparative and Foreign Law at Yale Law School.
    Agreed.

    Progressives at the turn of the 20th century was drenched in racism, from President Wilson on down the line to the most famous scientists of that day who were all sold on the importance of eugenics to create a stronger society.

    Charles Darwin himself expressed that the negro race was inferior and that allowing inferiors to breed would only weaken the human gene pool, whether they are an inferior race or simply genetically impaired in other ways. However, Darwin took the position that it was noble to protect the weak rather than trying to oppress them. Hitler probably decided to stick with science rather than delve into the ethical questions of weeding out the genetically inferior.

    “With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination; we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed, and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.

    The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, if so urged by hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature. The surgeon may harden himself whilst performing an operation, for he knows that he is acting for the good of his patient; but if we were intentionally to neglect the weak and helpless, it could only be for a contingent benefit, with a certain and great present evil. Hence we must bear without complaining the undoubtedly bad effects of the weak surviving and propagating their kind; but there appears to be at least one check in steady action, namely the weaker and inferior members of society not marrying so freely as the sound; and this check might be indefinitely increased, though this is more to be hoped for than expected, by the weak in body or mind refraining from marriage.”
    ― Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man
  11. Joined
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    17 Oct '17 12:531 edit
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    Whitman: American law, hard though it might be for us to accept it now, was a model for everybody in the early 20th century who was interested in creating a race-based order or race state. America was the leader in a whole variety of realms in racist law in the first part of that century. Some of this involved American immigration law, which was designed t ...[text shortened]... g and sometimes criminalizing interracial marriage. Those were of special interest to the Nazis.
    Margaret Sanger did her best to create a race state by creating planned parenthood to target black folk from reproducing.

    Woman, Morality, and Birth Control. New York: New York Publishing Company, 1922. Page 12.


    We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.
  12. Joined
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    17 Oct '17 12:592 edits
    Yes, sins of the past, they never leave us, do they.

    President Wilson is a revered Progressive leader who led the Hitler charge with quotes such as this

    “The white men were roused by a mere instinct of self-preservation—until at last there had sprung into existence a great Ku Klux Klan, a veritable empire of the South, to protect the Southern country.”

    “[Reconstruction government was detested] not because the Republican Party was dreaded but because the dominance of an ignorant and inferior race was justly dreaded.”
  13. Joined
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    17 Oct '17 13:50
    Originally posted by @finnegan
    https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10925.html

    Nazism triumphed in Germany during the high era of Jim Crow laws in the United States. Did the American regime of racial oppression in any way inspire the Nazis? The unsettling answer is yes. In Hitler's American Model, James Whitman presents a detailed investigation of the American impact on the notorious N ...[text shortened]... s Q. Whitman is the Ford Foundation Professor of Comparative and Foreign Law at Yale Law School.
    For the record, I do take issue with your cookie cutter approach to the US is bad and Europe is good perspective.

    After all, Europe persecuted the Jewish people for centuries. Episode after episode of kicking the Jews out of entire countries, forcing them to wear cloths that set them apart, putting them in ghettos and rounding them up in mass and murdering them. Keep in mind, this was all before the Holocaust. In fact, nothing new was done to the Jewish people that had not already been done in centuries past, long before the US was even created.

    Also note, that Europeans conquered the Americas with genocidal force.

    I suppose I am most proud as an American that the Founding Fathers had inner moral fiber enough to recognize the abuses suffered by European governments and tried to fix themselves. And although they were involved with slavery, at least they had enough moral fiber to remain divided on the issue, and create a document that clearly outlined the evils of such inequality that led to a Civil war. No outside force was needed to "fix" the slavery issue.

    As for Europe, if it were not for the US the Jewish race may well have been exterminated from the face of the earth.
  14. Standard memberfinnegan
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    17 Oct '17 16:113 edits
    Originally posted by @whodey
    For the record, I do take issue with your cookie cutter approach to the US is bad and Europe is good perspective.

    After all, Europe persecuted the Jewish people for centuries. Episode after episode of kicking the Jews out of entire countries, forcing them to wear cloths that set them apart, putting them in ghettos and rounding them up in mass and murderi ...[text shortened]... were not for the US the Jewish race may well have been exterminated from the face of the earth.
    You are mistaken on many points.

    The point of my post linking US and German race laws is not to say Americans are bad and European good - the Germans are European you know and white Americans are just European, especially British, colonists as you acknowledged in your own post - but to say that Americans are part of the problem, not the fkg heroes of your absurd nationalist fantasies.

    The Americans did not defeat the Nazis and rescue the Jews from extermination. The Russians did. The Americans held back from even trying to land in Europe until Stalin's Russia has absorbed most of Germany's resources and the Nazis were already moving to the defensive. It was never really certain that the Americans would even fight the Germans until the war had continued for quite a long time without them. The Americans were aware of the death camps during the war and did nothing to disrupt their operations; for example by bombing essential rail links. Far from rescuing Jews, the US was reluctant to accept them as immigrants before or after the war, and promoted Zionism and the colonisation of Palestine partly to divert Jews away from America. Your country did, however, employ former Nazis and deployed their special skills in various third world operations.

    What lessons do you think we should learn from the Holocaust? The war and the experience of the Holocaust did not moderate American racism nor teach Americans of the evils of racism. Segregation was not even challenged until the Sixties and has not yet been removed. The USA supported apartheid in South Africa and still does in Israel. The USA is the source of many details of race based law across the world as my earlier post illustrated. You personally exemplify a continuing strain of racism that poisons US political and cultural life as well as poluting this forum.

    The slave trade from Africa was blocked by the British navy to the frustration of the US slavers. You needed no outside help to "fix" the slavery issue and that may be why the issue is not yet fixed. It was "fixed" by switching to Jim Crow and segregation as you know very well. From lynching to mass incarceration, it ain't fixed.

    You are mistaken to pretend that the US constitution played any role in the abolition of slavery, or the later rather inadequate dismantling of Jim Crow laws and apartheid / segregation. The constitution was written by slave owners precisely to make slavery possible and did its job to perfection. The constitution even today is achieving nothing whatsoever to protect Black Americans from ongoing discrimination - and indeed, even the current mass incarceration of Black Americans is taking place without protection from the constitution that you seem so absurdly and foolishly proud about.
  15. Germany
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    17 Oct '17 16:14
    Originally posted by @whodey
    For the record, I do take issue with your cookie cutter approach to the US is bad and Europe is good perspective.

    After all, Europe persecuted the Jewish people for centuries. Episode after episode of kicking the Jews out of entire countries, forcing them to wear cloths that set them apart, putting them in ghettos and rounding them up in mass and murderi ...[text shortened]... were not for the US the Jewish race may well have been exterminated from the face of the earth.
    How very enlightened you are, whodey. Why don't you tell us some more about your feelings towards Muslims, or the non-racist candidate losing the presidential election?
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