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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 31 May '16 21:45
    Some writers here apparently have taken the position that an employer
    has the right to require its employees to wear (or not wear) anything
    that it likes as long as it does not violate laws against 'public indecency'.

    In May 2016, Nicolas Thorp (age 27) reported for work (temp job) as
    a receptionist at a corporate finance firm in London. She was ordered
    to wear only shoes with 2 to 4 inch heels. When she refused to rush
    out and buy some high heels, she was dismissed and sent home without pay.
    She complained of sexist discrimination; men are not required to wear high heels.

    "I said 'If you can give me a reason as to why wearing flats would impair
    me to do my job today, then fair enough', but they couldn't. I was expected
    to do a nine hour shift on my feet escorting clients to meeting rooms.
    I said I just wouldn't be able to do it in heels."
    --Nicola Thorp (speaking to the BBC)

    Nicola Thorp's petition has received much support from working women.

    http://www.theguardian.com/women-in-leadership/2016/may/12/enforcing-high-heels-in-the-office-is-the-height-of-workplace-sexism

    "Enforcing high heels in the office is the height of workplace sexism"
    --Harriet Minter (12 May 2016)

    "What we really judge success on is the attractiveness of the woman attached to it.
    It's not enough to be a professional, competent receptionist welcoming
    your guests, she also needs to be sexy. Because for some reason companies
    still seem think that true success is coming through the door to a woman
    who's both beddable and biddable ..."
    --Harriet Minter (a former receptionist)

    http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2016/may/13/nine-hour-shift-in-high-heels-nicola-thorp

    "A nine hour shift in high heels: I'm so hungry, but can't face walking to Pret'
    --Imogen Fox (13 May 2016)

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/13/heels-female-vulnerability-nicola-sharp-feminist

    "Why high heels are the height of female vulnerability"
    --Deborah Orr (13 May 2016)

    So should an employer be allowed to demand that its female employees
    (not its male employees) wear high heels? I would object on the grounds
    that this requirement is not simply aesthetic; it involves a matter of health.
    Doctors have advised me, for instance, that my feet are sensitive and at
    risk for long-term damage, so I must be careful about what shoes I wear.
    (That said, I can tolerate shoes with two inch heels.)

    I know of a corporation that required its female employees in the office
    to wear only dresses or skirts within a range of length (neither too short
    not too long). as well as hosiery (at least back in the old days). While
    I wish that this employer was more flexible, I suppose that I could accept
    it as long as there were no health or safety concerns, though I wish there
    was compensation to cover the cost of frequently replacing hosiery.

    What limits, if any, should there be upon an employer's dress code for employees?
  2. 31 May '16 21:52
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Some writers here apparently have taken the position that an employer
    has the right to require its employees to wear (or not wear) anything
    that it likes as long as it does not violate laws against 'public indecency'.

    In May 2016, Nicolas Thorp (age 27) reported for work (temp job) as
    a receptionist at a corporate finance firm in London. She was ord ...[text shortened]... ng hosiery.

    What limits, if any, should there be upon an employer's dress code for employees?
    All woman employee's should wear black stockings ,suspenders and high heels .
    And a very short skirt ! ...and make the cups of tea on a regular basis .
  3. 31 May '16 22:19
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    So should an employer be allowed to demand that its female employees
    (not its male employees) wear high heels? I would object on the grounds
    that this requirement is not simply aesthetic; it involves a matter of health.

    What limits, if any, should there be upon an employer's dress code for employees?
    I think it very much depends on the industry and the job. In some jobs, men are expected to wear ties, and in others they must wear a suit. If anything women often have a more flexible dress code than men. I do think however that forcing women to wear heels rather than merely demanding that they dress decently is enforcing a culture that says 'heels = smartly dressed' which isn't necessarily the case. The problem with not specifying things in dress codes is that it can be difficult to enforce otherwise. How do you tell someone they are not smartly dressed if you can't point to something specific like a tie or heels or the length of their skirt?
  4. 31 May '16 23:00
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I think it very much depends on the industry and the job. In some jobs, men are expected to wear ties, and in others they must wear a suit. If anything women often have a more flexible dress code than men. I do think however that forcing women to wear heels rather than merely demanding that they dress decently is enforcing a culture that says 'heels = sma ...[text shortened]... essed if you can't point to something specific like a tie or heels or the length of their skirt?
    "I think it very much depends on the industry and the job."
    it shouldn't

    " In some jobs, men are expected to wear ties, and in others they must wear a suit."
    suits and ties are not high heels. furthermore, in formal work places women are required to wear suits as well but with horrible shoes added
  5. 31 May '16 23:20
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I think it very much depends on the industry and the job. In some jobs, men are expected to wear ties, and in others they must wear a suit. If anything women often have a more flexible dress code than men. I do think however that forcing women to wear heels rather than merely demanding that they dress decently is enforcing a culture that says 'heels = sma ...[text shortened]... essed if you can't point to something specific like a tie or heels or the length of their skirt?
    Wearing a tie has no adverse effects on a man's health. But there's ample evidence
    that wearing high heels can harm a woman's health, resulting in long-term difficulties.

    Here's a scientific paper:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22241055

    "Long-term use of high-heeled shoes alters the neuromechanics of human walking"

    www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/jun/21/are-high-heels-bad-for-your-fleet

    "Are high heels bad for your feet?"
    --Luisa Dillner

    "I've joined the 78% of women who wear them (high heels) almost daily, despite them
    causing pain, on average, after one hour and six minutes."
    --Luisa Dillner

    So should an employer be allowed to require male employees to wear something
    that's painful and could result in long-term damage to their health?
  6. Standard member lemon lime
    blah blah blah
    01 Jun '16 01:25
    Everyone should wear bib overalls... everyone, no exceptions.

    Or pantsuits, but only on special occasions.
  7. 01 Jun '16 08:55
    i am waiting for someone who would say there is nothing wrong with enforcing high heels at work, that it is the price women pay to have a job, that they should be grateful for that job being offered in the first place or that they just are worse negotiators than men since all men managed to not have high heels imposed on them.


    common, don't disappoint me.
  8. 01 Jun '16 11:13
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    "I think it very much depends on the industry and the job."
    it shouldn't
    Of course it should. There are some industries that have good reason for requiring women to wear high heels. The fashion industry for example. If you are selling high heels, then you better wear them.

    " In some jobs, men are expected to wear ties, and in others they must wear a suit."
    suits and ties are not high heels. furthermore, in formal work places women are required to wear suits as well but with horrible shoes added

    Except that many women do not consider them to be 'horrible shoes'. Most women who wear high heels, do so by choice. Most men, when will not wear a tie unless the occasion demands it.
  9. 01 Jun '16 11:16
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    [b]Wearing a tie has no adverse effects on a man's health. But there's ample evidence
    that wearing high heels can harm a woman's health, resulting in long-term difficulties./b]
    Yet a high percentage of women continue to wear them. I think an argument could be made that health concerns might be an excuse to buck the dress code, but I am not convinced it is a sound argument. Many jobs require certain health risks. Health is not a primary directive.
  10. 01 Jun '16 11:18
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    i am waiting for someone who would say there is nothing wrong with enforcing high heels at work,
    What is your opinion on ties. Is it acceptable for them to be an enforced part of the dress code? If so, is your objection to heels on health grounds? Or your personal dislike for them?
  11. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    01 Jun '16 11:42
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Some writers here apparently have taken the position that an employer
    has the right to require its employees to wear (or not wear) anything
    that it likes as long as it does not violate laws against 'public indecency'.

    In May 2016, Nicolas Thorp (age 27) reported for work (temp job) as
    a receptionist at a corporate finance firm in London. She was ord ...[text shortened]... ng hosiery.

    What limits, if any, should there be upon an employer's dress code for employees?
    Some employers require their employees to wear nothing, other employers demand that their employees dress up as clowns.

    Don't like it? Don't work there.
  12. 01 Jun '16 12:29
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    What is your opinion on ties. Is it acceptable for them to be an enforced part of the dress code? If so, is your objection to heels on health grounds? Or your personal dislike for them?
    as long as it doesn't harm the health of the employee and it doesn't hinder him/her from doing the job, an employer may enforce any kind of dress code he feels would help his company (taking into consideration that forcing an employee to dress in a certain manner might harm productivity)
  13. 01 Jun '16 12:30
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    Some employers require their employees to wear nothing, other employers demand that their employees dress up as clowns.

    Don't like it? Don't work there.
    there he is. we have one.
  14. 01 Jun '16 12:35
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Yet a high percentage of women continue to wear them. I think an argument could be made that health concerns might be an excuse to buck the dress code, but I am not convinced it is a sound argument. Many jobs require certain health risks. Health is not a primary directive.
    "Yet a high percentage of women continue to wear them."
    a certain number of people smoke. others drink. we do all kinds of harmful behavior but it should be our choice.

    "but I am not convinced it is a sound argument"
    you are not convinced wearing high heels is bad for you?

    "Many jobs require certain health risks."
    yes, but they are inherent to the job. you work in constructions, you understand a girdle might fall on your head. you wear a hard hat. how about construction workers wear lakers caps because the owner is a fan?
  15. 01 Jun '16 13:19
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Yet a high percentage of women continue to wear them. I think an argument could be made that health concerns might be an excuse to buck the dress code, but I am not convinced it is a sound argument. Many jobs require certain health risks. Health is not a primary directive.
    I'm sorry... You don't think health concerns are a valid reason not to wear whatever
    the boss declares on a whim to force upon you?

    And no, there are no jobs at all, including the ones you referenced, where wearing
    high heels is or should be a requirement.

    Even if you sell high heels, the person working the shop all day does not need to
    be wearing harmful items of clothing that are deeply uncomfortable to wear for any
    prolonged period of time. Just as you don't need to wear a ball gown to sell them.