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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    05 Sep '18 21:07
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/05/arizona-teachers-filipino-schools-low-pay

    "The job Americans won't take: Arizona looks to Philippines to fill teacher shortage"

    "Some American public schools are turning to foreign teachers because
    Americans with college educations are increasingly uninterested in low-paid,
    demanding teaching jobs."

    "“Teaching has become a much less attractive profession,” said Linda
    Darling-Hammond, president of the Learning Policy Institute, an education
    policy thinktank, noting that American teacher salaries have fallen far
    behind those of other college educated workers."

    "Inojosa is one of 12,000 foreign teachers who have come to the United
    States in the last five years on temporary J-1 cultural exchange visas.
    (The three-year visas offer no path to permanent residence in the United States.) "

    "Arizona ranked as one of the worst states for teachers’ pay in the US.
    Teachers there hit breaking point in April."

    "Some Casa Grande locals who voted [most did] for Donald Trump do
    not support higher pay for teachers."

    "Teachers, he said, should get out of teaching if they don’t like their pay,
    and not ask “for handouts”. Still, he doesn’t necessarily agree with hiring
    foreign teachers to take vacant American jobs."

    "Morris, an automotive engineer, was immediately hired at Casa Grande
    Union high school. His low teacher salary led to financial pressures.
    Several years ago, he lost his home."

    "The first Filipino teachers were interviewed via Skype. They were highly
    credentialed and taught in English – a legacy of the Philippines’ brief
    tenure as an American territory [after the USA's brutal conquest]."

    "Inojosa [Filipino teacher] and his wife, Bennielyn, just moved into a small
    apartment in town. Except for a bed, a triptych of a tree they bought for $3
    at a thrift store, and a small table for grading papers, they have no furniture."

    "Inojosa, who chairs the science department at his school, is well respected by
    students, colleagues and the administration. They tell him they wish he could stay.
    He wishes he could, too. But his three-year visa expires in the summer of 2019."

    Americans want public schools to provide high quality education while paying teachers little.
    No wonder many middle-class white Americans want to import more desperate
    non-white people to do these jobs that too few middle-class white Americans want.
  2. Zugzwang
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    05 Sep '18 21:122 edits
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/04/trump-weak-schools-teachers-education-arne-duncan

    "How weak schools serve Trump's agenda
    Of course the president says he loves the ‘poorly educated’:
    authoritarian regimes benefit when citizens lack education."
    --Arne Duncan

    "This is exactly what President Trump wants: for Americans to be unable, and unwilling,
    to see or hear what’s actually true. He wants us to be unable to think critically."

    "We [USA] were no longer top 10 in anything – not academic ability, not college graduation
    rates, not access to high-quality pre-K."

    "I’ve seen countless other young lives virtually destroyed by an education system that
    has consistently lied to students and ultimately failed them."

    "Upon winning the Nevada primary in February 2016, Trump observed: “We won with the
    poorly educated. I love the poorly educated.” ... The quote succinctly reveals that this is
    right where he wants people to be: divided and preferably poorly educated."

    Many poorly educated Americans prefer to have their leaders tell them flattering lies about
    their intrinsic superiority rather than attempt the harder work of becoming better educated.
  3. Behind the scenes
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    05 Sep '18 22:161 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/05/arizona-teachers-filipino-schools-low-pay

    "The job Americans won't take: Arizona looks to Philippines to fill teacher shortage"

    "Some American public schools are turning to foreign teachers because
    Americans with college educations are increasingly uninterested in low-paid,
    demanding teaching jobs. ...[text shortened]... ore desperate
    non-white people to do these jobs that too few middle-class white Americans want.
    Normally I would agree with you Duchess, since there is a great deal of logic in your post, too bad you're such a racist. So I'll disagree 100% (yes, a thumbs down is mine!) 😀


    The lesson Duchess never learns: You can catch more bees with honey than with acid! 😀
  4. SubscriberWajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
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    05 Sep '18 22:24
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/05/arizona-teachers-filipino-schools-low-pay

    "The job Americans won't take: Arizona looks to Philippines to fill teacher shortage"

    "Some American public schools are turning to foreign teachers because
    Americans with college educations are increasingly uninterested in low-paid,
    demanding teaching jobs. ...[text shortened]... ore desperate
    non-white people to do these jobs that too few middle-class white Americans want.
    "The first Filipino teachers were interviewed via Skype. They were highly
    credentialed and taught in English – a legacy of the Philippines’ brief
    tenure as an American territory [after the USA's brutal conquest]."


    D64, you added the words "[after the USA's brutal conquest]"

    If you're going to doctor your cut and pastes with your own dream feelings you should indicate them.
  5. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    05 Sep '18 22:47
    It's right in the first paragraph: Americans aren't interested in low paying, demanding jobs.

    The solution is never to destroy the power of labor and upset the market by importing endless new people to plug the hole at the cheapest price... It is to raise wages.

    Wow, Duchess, you make me feel so left wing!
  6. SubscriberSuzianne
    Misfit Queen
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    05 Sep '18 23:24
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    "The first Filipino teachers were interviewed via Skype. They were highly
    credentialed and taught in English – a legacy of the Philippines’ brief
    tenure as an American territory [after the USA's brutal conquest]."


    D64, you added the words [b] "[after the USA's brutal conquest]"


    If you're going to doctor your cut and pastes with your own dream feelings you should indicate them.[/b]
    You mean, I dunno, by using brackets, maybe?
  7. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    06 Sep '18 01:182 edits
    Originally posted by @wajoma
    "The first Filipino teachers were interviewed via Skype. They were highly
    credentialed and taught in English – a legacy of the Philippines’ brief
    tenure as an American territory [after the USA's brutal conquest]."


    D64, you added the words [b] "[after the USA's brutal conquest]"


    If you're going to doctor your cut and pastes with your own dream feelings you should indicate them.[/b]
    The racist troll Wajoma objects to my citing evidence of brutal white American racism.

    I prefer not to let ignorant 'patriotic' Americans keep believing the propaganda (enshrined
    in their history textbooks), that the USA 'liberated' the eternally grateful Filipinos from Spain,
    and the 'little brown brothers' (to quote William Howard Taft) were eager to become the
    meek colonial subjects of the (deeply racist) American Empire.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine%E2%80%93American_War

    "Filipino civilians: 250,000–1,000,000 died, largely because of famine and disease."

    The USA practiced a systematic policy of depriving 'rebel' areas of food, aiming to starve
    the Filipinos into surrender. (Stalin pursued a similar policy in 'pacifying' the Ukraine.)
    The USA won a ruthless (nearly genocidal) war of racist conquest in the Philippines.

    Dutch GM Hans Ree has a hypothesis that Bobby Fischer became 'anti-American' after
    he listened to his Filipino friends tell him about the USA's brutal imperialism in their homeland.
  8. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    06 Sep '18 01:25
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    It's right in the first paragraph: Americans aren't interested in low paying, demanding jobs.

    The solution is never to destroy the power of labor and upset the market by importing endless new people to plug the hole at the cheapest price... It is to raise wages.

    Wow, Duchess, you make me feel so left wing!
    Again, right-wing Americans who support President Trump tend to oppose higher salaries for teachers.
    Given how proud President Trump has made them feel about being poorly educated,
    why should his supporters want to pay more to make other people better educated?

    "Arizona ranked as one of the worst states for teachers’ pay in the US.
    Teachers there hit breaking point in April."

    "Some Casa Grande locals who voted [most did] for Donald Trump do
    not support higher pay for teachers."

    "Teachers, he said, should get out of teaching if they don’t like their pay,
    and not ask “for handouts”. Still, he doesn’t necessarily agree with hiring
    foreign teachers to take vacant American jobs."
  9. Joined
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    281487
    06 Sep '18 01:36
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    Again, right-wing Americans who support President Trump tend to oppose higher salaries for teachers.
    Given how proud President Trump has made them feel about being poorly educated,
    why should his supporters want to pay more to make other people better educated?

    "Arizona ranked as one of the worst states for teachers’ pay in the US.
    Teachers there hi ...[text shortened]... Still, he doesn’t necessarily agree with hiring
    foreign teachers to take vacant American jobs."
    Ever been to Casa Grande? My sister lived there. Is/was a middle of the desert podunk town w/ mostly illegal Mexicans living there
  10. Zugzwang
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    06 Sep '18 01:462 edits
    Originally posted by @kquinn909
    Ever been to Casa Grande? My sister lived there. Is/was a middle of the desert podunk town w/ mostly illegal Mexicans living there
    "It [Casa Grande] is ethnically diverse and largely conservative – it sits in a rural county
    where Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton by 19 points. Median household income in 2016
    was $46,000, 20% below the national average."

    "We won [an election] with the poorly educated. I love the poorly educated.”
    --Donald Trump (2016)

    In general, poor people want the public schools to make their children better educated.
    Plutocrats like Donald Trump know their interests are served by keeping people poorly educated.
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
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    06 Sep '18 01:581 edit
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    It's right in the first paragraph: Americans aren't interested in low paying, demanding jobs.

    The solution is never to destroy the power of labor and upset the market by importing endless new people to plug the hole at the cheapest price... It is to raise wages.

    Wow, Duchess, you make me feel so left wing!
    Agree 100%. The purpose of J-1 and other such programs is to keep worker wages low and that simply does not benefit the US economy or its People.

    EDIT: It is perhaps more accurate to say that importing foreign teachers because you don't want to pay teachers a reasonable salary is a misuse of the J-1 program, which is really supposed to be for cultural exchanges.
  12. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
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    06 Sep '18 02:04
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/sep/05/arizona-teachers-filipino-schools-low-pay

    "The job Americans won't take: Arizona looks to Philippines to fill teacher shortage"

    "Some American public schools are turning to foreign teachers because
    Americans with college educations are increasingly uninterested in low-paid,
    demanding teaching jobs. ...[text shortened]... ore desperate
    non-white people to do these jobs that too few middle-class white Americans want.
    Duchy: Americans want public schools to provide high quality education while paying teachers little.

    No they don't want teachers paid "little":

    In 2016-2017, the average salary for a public school teacher was $58,950, down slightly from the previous year, according to the National Center for Education Statistics.

    Overall, 78 percent of Americans said that’s not enough. Just 15 percent think teachers are paid the right amount, while 6 percent think they’re paid too much.

    And:

    Half of Americans would be willing to shoulder the cost of paying teachers more and providing more money to schools via higher taxes, with only 26 percent opposed.

    And somewhat surprisingly:

    Fifty-two percent of Americans approve of teachers leaving the classroom to strike in their search for higher pay.

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/more-than-half-of-americans-support-pay-raises-for-teachers-poll-finds

    This is yet another example of Duchy having little knowledge of what Americans actually think as opposed to what she has been indoctrinated to believe they think.
  13. Zugzwang
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    06 Sep '18 02:331 edit
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Duchy: Americans want public schools to provide high quality education while paying teachers little.

    No they don't want teachers paid "little":

    In 2016-2017, the average salary for a public school teacher was $58,950, down slightly from the previous year, according to the National Center for Education Statistics.

    Overall, 78 percent of American ...[text shortened]... at Americans actually think as opposed to what she has been indoctrinated to believe they think.
    Again, when expedient (such as attacking me), the ethnocentric American troll No1Marauder
    prefers to take some (cherry-picked) responses on some surveys at face value rather
    than consider whether people's actions are consistent with what they claim to believe.

    Almost all Americans (including No1Marauder himself) deny that they have any racial prejudices.
    When expedient (such as in denying racism exists against Asian Americans), No1Marauder prefers
    to accept this claim at face value, but not at other times when expedient (such as in not
    denying that racism exists against African Americans).

    If it were true that most Americans clearly support higher salaries for public school teachers,
    then the teachers would not have to go on strike for better pay or working conditions.
    Instead, most Americans already would have elected public officials who would have raised their
    taxes in order to pay more to teachers. But this has NOT generally happened in the USA.

    If it were true that most Americans respect and value the teaching profession, then middle-class
    white American college graduates would not be so reluctant to choose it for their careers.
    People's behavior is a much more reliable indicator of what they really believe.

    Talk (to a survey) is cheap. People show what they really believe by how they use their money.

    How many of the college-educated middle-class Americans here would like to exchange
    their present jobs (if employed) for a public school teacher's (in Arizona)?
  14. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    06 Sep '18 02:371 edit
    Originally posted by @no1marauder to Philokalia
    Agree 100%. The purpose of J-1 and other such programs is to keep worker wages low and that simply does not benefit the US economy or its People.

    EDIT: It is perhaps more accurate to say that importing foreign teachers because you don't want to pay teachers a reasonable salary is a misuse of the J-1 program, which is really supposed to be for cultural exchanges.
    Would No1Marauder also object to the waves of Irish immigrants who were ready initially
    to work in lower-paying jobs rejected by most Americans at that time?
  15. Joined
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    06 Sep '18 08:59
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    It's right in the first paragraph: Americans aren't interested in low paying, demanding jobs.

    The solution is never to destroy the power of labor and upset the market by importing endless new people to plug the hole at the cheapest price... It is to raise wages.

    Wow, Duchess, you make me feel so left wing!
    Americans will work any job if it pays enough. If they do not pay enough there is understandable reluctance to volunteer to be exploited.
    Suppressing wages is how wealth trickles up to the rich and leaves the poor in abject poverty. This is economic slavery of the working class. It is a sick and perverse policy that needs to end. Unfortunately, Trump has done nothing to change it. Obama did nothing to change it either. The elites run this country from behind the scenes by bribing politicians with their massive wealth.

    Wealth inequality is the biggest problem the USA faces today. This will inevitably lead to domestic terrorism with the goal of egalitarianism.

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