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  1. 29 Dec '12 13:43
    Check this from the Tubby Monster:

    michael-moore-calm-down-white-people-and-put-away-your-guns

    He lives in a gated community in a 10,000 square foot mansion and has armed bodyguards when he ventures out in public.

    The rest of us must just put up with it.
  2. 29 Dec '12 13:46
    He's a douche, although I'm not sure he's the biggest. I think that would be John Edward.
  3. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    29 Dec '12 14:06
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    He's a douche, although I'm not sure he's the biggest. I think that would be John Edward.
    MM is a douche. I forced myself to read this. But surprisingly, it's not as bad as his usual white-men-are-evil, self-hating crap.

    http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/celebrating-prince-peace-land-guns

    Healthcare is too expensive and poverty does increase crime rates. The solution is not a broad increase in government and higher taxes, though.

    Not sure if American culture is more accepting of violence in general -- could be, but I think that would be due a combination of heterogeneity and a disinclination to just "let things be". Europeans will suffer under injustices quietly far longer than Americans will. We are very impatient when our personal liberties are trampled. There is a good and bad side to that characteristic -- I hesitate to say it is wrong.
  4. 29 Dec '12 16:55
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    MM is a douche. I forced myself to read this. But surprisingly, it's not as bad as his usual white-men-are-evil, self-hating crap.

    http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/celebrating-prince-peace-land-guns

    Healthcare is too expensive and poverty does increase crime rates. The solution is not a broad increase in government and higher ta ...[text shortened]... ampled. There is a good and bad side to that characteristic -- I hesitate to say it is wrong.
    Countries with high inequality in Europe do tend to be a lot more violent - you'll find a lot more violent crime in the UK or France than in Sweden. The difference with the US is perhaps that there are fewer guns in the UK so you'll mostly see stabbings and such there. But hey, if someone stabs you to death you're just as dead as when someone shoots you.

    "More government" is not a solution by itself (see France) but redistibution of wealth does tend to reduce crime and boost economic growth without any significant drawbacks.
  5. 29 Dec '12 17:22
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    Not sure if American culture is more accepting of violence in general -- could be, but I think that would be due a combination of heterogeneity and a disinclination to just "let things be". Europeans will suffer under injustices quietly far longer than Americans will. We are very impatient when our personal liberties are trampled. There is a good and bad side to that characteristic -- I hesitate to say it is wrong.
    Surely it's America that's more inclined just to "let things be". A constitutional amendment with as many negative social effects as the 2nd would, in most European countries, have been repealed in short order.
  6. 29 Dec '12 18:02
    Originally posted by Teinosuke
    Surely it's America that's more inclined just to "let things be". A constitutional amendment with as many negative social effects as the 2nd would, in most European countries, have been repealed in short order.
    A constitutional amendment with as many negative social effects as the 2nd would, in most European countries, have been repealed in short order.-Teinosuke


    What ?!
    Lets take a look at Australia.

    After Australia banned many guns following a 1996 mass murder of 35 people by a madman with assault rifles. The country tightened registration laws, banned assault rifles, pump-action shotguns, and also forced a buy back of more than 600,000 guns. What effect did this have on crime?


    “A 2003 study published by the Brookings Institution, found homicides “continued a modest decline” since 1997. They concluded that the impact of the National Firearms Agreement was “relatively small,” with the daily rate of firearms homicides declining 3.2%.”

    During the same period in America, deaths attributed to firearms dropped by nearly ten times the decline seen in Australia. Restricting or confiscating handguns seems to have had almost no effect on homicides in Australia and the stats also show that the law had no real effect on suicides.

    Suicides with firearms went down but suicides by other means went up.

    And what about the oft-cited British gun laws? Have they done the job?

    Restrictive gun laws have been around for almost 100 years in England, and getting a permit requires proving to police that you have a “good reason” for needing a gun. Self defense is not considered to be a good reason in England.

    Following a 1987 shooting in the British town of Hungerford, the Brits enacted stricter controls. And in 1998, a near-total ban on gun ownership followed another mass shooting. Were these moves a success?


    Within a decade of the handgun ban and the confiscation of handguns from registered owners, crime with handguns had doubled according to British government crime reports. Gun crime, not a serious problem in the past, now is. Armed street gangs have some British police carrying guns for the first time.

    Thank goodness for our second admendment and its positive social effects Teinosuke Your euro countries would be much better off with a similar admendment !

    read more: at the Wall street Jornal and the Blaze.
  7. 29 Dec '12 18:15
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    MM is a douche. I forced myself to read this. But surprisingly, it's not as bad as his usual white-men-are-evil, self-hating crap.

    http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-friends-blog/celebrating-prince-peace-land-guns

    Healthcare is too expensive and poverty does increase crime rates. The solution is not a broad increase in government and higher ta ...[text shortened]... ampled. There is a good and bad side to that characteristic -- I hesitate to say it is wrong.
    Results seem to be mixed:

    "Recent research also has found interesting differences in normative beliefs about aggression across cultures. Huesmann, Zelli, Fraczek, and Upmeyer (1993) examined attitudes about aggression in American, German, and Polish college students. Students' mean scores were significantly different between countries. The U.S. students were most approving of aggression; the Germans showed the smallest difference in approval of aggression against males as compared to females; and the Polish students showed the largest difference in approval of aggression against males as compared to females. In a comparative study of Hispanic schoolchildren in Chicago whose families had been in the U.S. for varying amounts of time, differences in beliefs also were found as a function of length of time living in the U.S. (Guerra, Huesmann, Hanish, Font, & Henry, 1993). Specifically, approval of general aggression was higher for children whose families had been in the U.S. longer, whereas approval of aggression against females was lower for these children. "

    http://business.highbeam.com/435401/article-1G1-55438336/influence-american-urban-culture-development-normative
  8. 29 Dec '12 18:39
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    He's a douche, although I'm not sure he's the biggest. I think that would be John Edward.
    Moore is much bigger than Edwards, though perhaps not on the douche bag scale.
  9. 29 Dec '12 19:52
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Countries with high inequality in Europe do tend to be a lot more violent - you'll find a lot more violent crime in the UK or France than in Sweden. The difference with the US is perhaps that there are fewer guns in the UK so you'll mostly see stabbings and such there. But hey, if someone stabs you to death you're just as dead as when someone shoots you ...[text shortened]... alth does tend to reduce crime and boost economic growth without any significant drawbacks.
    Do you suppose the greater violence is due to inequity, or due to douchebags stirring up those with less to be envious?
  10. 29 Dec '12 19:55
    Originally posted by Teinosuke
    Surely it's America that's more inclined just to "let things be". A constitutional amendment with as many negative social effects as the 2nd would, in most European countries, have been repealed in short order.
    America tends to look at its Constitution as a whole, not piecemeal, and if the 2nd has negative social values, which is arguable, then they must be weighed against its positives.

    Generally, for most of America's history, we have viewed government as a necessary evil, and the Constitution, including the 2nd as a firewall against the excesses of government seen elsewhere.
  11. 29 Dec '12 20:26
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    He's a douche, although I'm not sure he's the biggest. I think that would be John Edward.
    Michael Moore is a wonderful man,
    a great writer, film maker and investigative journalist.

    And he has Irish heritage.


    How much would you have known about Bush and his links
    with certain American business interests if it had not been for
    Michael Moore?

    That and Bush's links with Afghanistan's leaders and the Saudi
    royal family?

    If he has lots of money and a big house that is for 2 reasons.

    1. He came from humble beginnings and America being the great
    country that it is he was able to educate himself and make something
    of himself.

    2. The plaudits he has received are deserved. If his work was no good
    then it would not be appreciated and he would not have the success
    he has today. He is currently worth around $60 million dollars.

    I personally don't begrudge him a penny of it.
  12. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    29 Dec '12 21:06
    Originally posted by KilgoreTrout15
    Check this from the Tubby Monster:

    michael-moore-calm-down-white-people-and-put-away-your-guns

    He lives in a gated community in a 10,000 square foot mansion and has armed bodyguards when he ventures out in public.

    The rest of us must just put up with it.
    Michael Moore is a great American hero.
  13. 30 Dec '12 00:21
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    A constitutional amendment with as many negative social effects as the 2nd would, in most European countries, have been repealed in short order.-Teinosuke


    What ?!
    Lets take a look at Australia.

    After Australia banned many guns following a 1996 mass murder of 35 people by a madman with assault rifles. The country tightened regist ...[text shortened]... ch better off with a similar admendment !

    read more: at the Wall street Jornal and the Blaze.
    Or you could read this, for an alternative view:

    http://world.time.com/2012/12/17/when-massacres-force-change-lessons-from-the-u-k-and-australia/

    I acknowledge your point that a fall in gun-related violence doesn't necessarily equate to a fall in violence overall. However, your statistics seem to be dodgy as regards Britain. Here's David Cole on the issue:

    http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/oct/25/guns-lets-learn-uk/?pagination=false

    While it is true that gun violence increased marginally after gun laws were tightened in 1997, it has more recently dropped. More telling are the actual numbers. There were only thirty-nine gun-related deaths in the United Kingdom in 2009. In the US there were over nine thousand. In other words, the US has five times as many people as the UK, and more than 230 times the number of gun homicides. We might well learn something from the British experience.
  14. 30 Dec '12 00:48
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    Michael Moore is a wonderful man,
    a great writer, film maker and investigative journalist.

    And he has Irish heritage.


    How much would you have known about Bush and his links
    with certain American business interests if it had not been for
    Michael Moore?

    That and Bush's links with Afghanistan's leaders and the Saudi
    royal family?

    If ...[text shortened]... currently worth around $60 million dollars.

    I personally don't begrudge him a penny of it.
    I've seen some of his documentaries, but most of it was stuff I already knew combined with some hysterical melodramatics.
  15. 30 Dec '12 00:52
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Do you suppose the greater violence is due to inequity, or due to douchebags stirring up those with less to be envious?
    You don't get much of the ridiculous hyperboles common in the US in western Europe. There is little to no talk radio or partisan pundit talkshows. People don't talk about "class warfare" or such nonsense. So no, I don't think so.