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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 22 Jul '16 18:22 / 3 edits
    From what I understand there is a great polarity, Americans who will vote for Mr Trump no matter what and those who will vote for Mrs Clinton, no matter what. I just wondered if his speech to the Republican National Convention persuaded anyone in the middle to take him more seriously?

    As someone who has been trained to give public discourses for a very different purpose it appeared to me to be a well drafted speech for what it was intended to deliver. His delivery while being sensationalistic was measured. The content too was not entirely lacking, he cited specifics, sometimes illustrated his point, gave personal experience, was full of conviction and animated. What it lacked was intellectual content but then again he was not teaching nor attempting to reason with the audience.

    So if you were undecided did it convince you to take Mr. Trump more seriously? Do you think it will be enough to jettison him to the Whitehouse?
  2. Subscriber FreakyKBH
    Acquired Taste...
    22 Jul '16 18:55
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    From what I understand there is a great polarity, Americans who will vote for Mr Trump no matter what and those who will vote for Mrs Clinton, no matter what. I just wondered if his speech to the Republican National Convention persuaded anyone in the middle to take him more seriously?

    As someone who has been trained to give public discourses fo ...[text shortened]... ake Mr. Trump more seriously? Do you think it will be enough to jettison him to the Whitehouse?
    I don't believe the lot of them, but...

    First person since Reagan that, in my opinion, came across as the guy who was telling you like it is.
    No goosebumps, no real confidence all of it can get done.
    For me, he was at least saying: let's stop the bleeding of the last twenty years wherein every vestige of what makes the US great has been under a barrage.
  3. 22 Jul '16 19:14 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    I don't believe the lot of them, but...

    First person since Reagan that, in my opinion, came across as the guy who was telling you like it is.
    No goosebumps, no real confidence all of it can get done.
    For me, he was at least saying: let's stop the bleeding of the last twenty years wherein every vestige of what makes the US great has been under a barrage.
    Yes he exposed Mrs Clinton as the incompetent shill that she undoubtedly is and the architect of some truly horrendous foreign policy. He actually believes his own rhetoric I agree and is convinced that he can not only change the system but actually mend it and while I have no horse in this race I can understand why he might appeal to a certain strata of voters but I think that speech probably was designed to reach out to the guy in the middle. I wonder what his chances are?
  4. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    22 Jul '16 19:42
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Yes he exposed Mrs Clinton as the incompetent shill that she undoubtedly is and the architect of some truly horrendous foreign policy. He actually believes his own rhetoric I agree and is convinced that he can not only change the system but actually mend it and while I have no horse in this race I can understand why he might appeal to a certain stra ...[text shortened]... ech probably was designed to reach out to the guy in the middle. I wonder what his chances are?
    Its down to a fight over who is the least disliked, not who is the most liked.

    It just proves my theory: Throw out democracy, introduce the political lottery.
    Joe the plumber is now president, Steve Martin is VP.

    The nice thing about that system is, NOBODY is bought off. At least for the first month.....
  5. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    22 Jul '16 20:10
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    So if you were undecided did it convince you to take Mr. Trump more seriously? Do you think it will be enough to jettison him to the Whitehouse?
    For a speech full of half-truths and outright lies, it wasn't bad.
  6. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    22 Jul '16 20:11
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    I don't believe the lot of them, but...

    First person since Reagan that, in my opinion, came across as the guy who was telling you like it is.
    No goosebumps, no real confidence all of it can get done.
    For me, he was at least saying: let's stop the bleeding of the last twenty years wherein every vestige of what makes the US great has been under a barrage.
    Reagan almost destroyed this country, you idiot.
  7. 22 Jul '16 20:17
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    For a speech full of half-truths and outright lies, it wasn't bad.
    Excellent you will be voting Mr Trump.
  8. 22 Jul '16 20:19
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Its down to a fight over who is the least disliked, not who is the most liked.

    It just proves my theory: Throw out democracy, introduce the political lottery.
    Joe the plumber is now president, Steve Martin is VP.

    The nice thing about that system is, NOBODY is bought off. At least for the first month.....
    what is the feeling on the ground? Are people looking for change after the disasters of the Bush presidency and the anti climax of the Obama administration?
  9. 22 Jul '16 20:21
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Reagan almost destroyed this country, you idiot.
    Yes but at least he spoke about doing it sincerely.
  10. 22 Jul '16 20:55 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    From what I understand there is a great polarity, Americans who will vote for Mr Trump no matter what and those who will vote for Mrs Clinton, no matter what. I just wondered if his speech to the Republican National Convention persuaded anyone in the middle to take him more seriously?

    As someone who has been trained to give public discourses fo ...[text shortened]... ake Mr. Trump more seriously? Do you think it will be enough to jettison him to the Whitehouse?
    David Duke, a notorious KKK leader (and convicted felon) has said that he's 'overjoyed' by the
    speech, claiming that Donald Trump has borrowed his ideas about how to make America great.

    In contrast, Garry Kasparov (who now lives in the USA) criticized the speech, implicitly comparing
    Donald Trump's jingoistic bombast to Vladimir Putin's (Putin seems to prefer Trump to Hillary Clinton):
    "I've heard this sort of speech a lot in the last 15 years and, trust me, it doesn't sound any better in Russian."
    --Garry Kasparov

    "The (Republican) Party I was part of is dead."
    --Meghan McCain (working for Fox News; her father is Republican Senator John McCain)
  11. Subscriber FreakyKBH
    Acquired Taste...
    22 Jul '16 21:03
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Its down to a fight over who is the least disliked, not who is the most liked.

    It just proves my theory: Throw out democracy, introduce the political lottery.
    Joe the plumber is now president, Steve Martin is VP.

    The nice thing about that system is, NOBODY is bought off. At least for the first month.....
    Holy chips, sonhouse: we agree!

    Well said.
  12. Subscriber FreakyKBH
    Acquired Taste...
    22 Jul '16 21:04 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    Reagan almost destroyed this country, you idiot.
    Says the person who thinks I'm faking an incredibly sublime vajayjay.

    EDIT: Let me guess...
    Vajayjay envy?
  13. 22 Jul '16 21:25
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    David Duke, a notorious KKK leader (and convicted felon) has said that he's 'overjoyed' by the
    speech, claiming that Donald Trump has borrowed his ideas about how to make America great.

    In contrast, Garry Kasparov (who now lives in the USA) criticized the speech, implicitly comparing
    Donald Trump's jingoistic bombast to Vladimir Putin's (Putin seems t ...[text shortened]... is dead."
    --Meghan McCain (working for Fox News; her father is Republican Senator John McCain)
    Yes but these are merely opinions of people with a political bias. I analysed Mr Trumps speech as a public speaker, not as a politician or with a political bias.
  14. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    22 Jul '16 21:46
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Yes he exposed Mrs Clinton as the incompetent shill that she undoubtedly is and the architect of some truly horrendous foreign policy. He actually believes his own rhetoric I agree and is convinced that he can not only change the system but actually mend it and while I have no horse in this race I can understand why he might appeal to a certain stra ...[text shortened]... ech probably was designed to reach out to the guy in the middle. I wonder what his chances are?
    The betting lines have given Trump an increased chance after the last two weeks; he's now about a 30-35% shot according to Betfair for instance. Nate Silver's 538, which did a bang up job of predicting the election in 2012 (every State correctly if I recall) has moved Trump's chances up from 22% to 40%.

    The poll consensus still has Hillary up by about 3 points but, in general, post-convention polls usually show a slight gain for the party which held the convention, so it's possible Trump might catch her in the polls to be taken this weekend (though the Republican Convention had a few gaffes like Melania's and Ted Cruz's speeches). The state of the race will probably be more clear a few weeks after the Democratic Convention.

    I still think that the demographics and electoral map make Trump a big underdog but if anyone can blow this election it would be Hillary (a rumored Tim Kaine VP pick would be a start).
  15. 22 Jul '16 21:51
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The betting lines have given Trump an increased chance after the last two weeks; he's now about a 30-35% shot according to Betfair for instance. Nate Silver's 538, which did a bang up job of predicting the election in 2012 (every State correctly if I recall) has moved Trump's chances up from 22% to 40%.

    The poll consensus still has Hillary up by abou ...[text shortened]... nyone can blow this election it would be Hillary (a rumored Tim Kaine VP pick would be a start).
    Thanks thats quite a significant shift, yes it appears that it was fairly successful.