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Debates Forum

  1. 30 Apr '13 19:05
    Jason Collins, backbencher in the NBA with a 1.1 point scoring average, has emerged from his closet, as the first in a major sport to be openly gay.

    Obama says "couldn't be prouder". Why? Why should anyone care?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57582095/i-couldnt-be-prouder-of-jason-collins-obama-says/

    Somehow the gushing doesn't equate to equal treatment. Did he really say, "bang with Shaq"?
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    30 Apr '13 19:25
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Jason Collins, backbencher in the NBA with a 1.1 point scoring average, has emerged from his closet, as the first in a major sport to be openly gay.

    Obama says "couldn't be prouder". Why? Why should anyone care?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57582095/i-couldnt-be-prouder-of-jason-collins-obama-says/

    Somehow the gushing doesn't equate to equal treatment. Did he really say, "bang with Shaq"?
    Because he's a trailblazer and he's trying to make things easier and better for the other (now closeted) gay players. He's willing to be a lightning rod and carry the baggage that goes along with it so that others who come in his wake will have it easier.

    He's not quite Jackie Robinson, but he's something like it.
  3. 30 Apr '13 19:44
    Originally posted by normbenign

    Obama says "couldn't be prouder". Why? Why should anyone care?
    Even if you don't think it's a big deal, is it a problem that Obama is proud of him?

    It will be a nice thing when no one will care, the problem is that there are those that do and that's why it's somewhat of a big deal.
  4. 30 Apr '13 19:59
    People will have the choice to support the gay guy or not. You can either continue going to the games and watching the games and buying their stuff or not. You can start doing the same. What's the big deal.

    As for locker room stuff, why don't these guys have their own dressing rooms? Why don't they have their own showers? Seems to me that once you get to this level you the team should be able to afford private dressing rooms for their players.

    Why is it a big deal? Because it is a leftist issue. You can't simply say that sexual orientation should be kept private and in one's bedroom. You must publicly agree that homosexuality is not immoral. It's part of their religion that they feel the need to impose on everyone.
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    30 Apr '13 20:29
    Originally posted by Eladar
    People will have the choice to support the gay guy or not. You can either continue going to the games and watching the games and buying their stuff or not. You can start doing the same. What's the big deal.

    As for locker room stuff, why don't these guys have their own dressing rooms? Why don't they have their own showers? Seems to me that once you get ...[text shortened]... s not immoral. It's part of their religion that they feel the need to impose on everyone.
    It does seem kind of bizarre that these sports locker rooms have communal showers when every new cheap-o gym and health club I've seen recently have individual stalls. It's probably some sort of a macho thing, which also goes a long way towards explaining why it's so tough for a gay athlete. Nobody (or almost nobody, I should say) cares if the meteorologist or scientist is gay, but when it comes to athletics, there seems to be a macho element that people seem to care about, for some reason.

    People will have the choice to support the gay guy or not. You can either continue going to the games and watching the games and buying their stuff or not. You can start doing the same. What's the big deal.


    What would be the possible reason to not support him or to boycott the games, as you're implying? I don't get it at all. Is there anyone who thinks that Collins actually did something wrong here?
  6. 30 Apr '13 20:36
    Originally posted by sh76
    It does seem kind of bizarre that these sports locker rooms have communal showers when every new cheap-o gym and health club I've seen recently have individual stalls. It's probably some sort of a macho thing, which also goes a long way towards explaining why it's so tough for a gay athlete. Nobody (or almost nobody, I should say) cares if the meteorologist or ...[text shortened]... get it at all. Is there anyone who thinks that Collins actually did something wrong here?
    Maybe he should have kept quiet.
  7. 30 Apr '13 20:38
    Originally posted by sh76
    Because he's a trailblazer and he's trying to make things easier and better for the other (now closeted) gay players. He's willing to be a lightning rod and carry the baggage that goes along with it so that others who come in his wake will have it easier.

    He's not quite Jackie Robinson, but he's something like it.
    "He's not quite Jackie Robinson, but he's something like it."

    Not anything like it. Before Robinson, there weren't any black major league players. Jason in all likelihood isn't the first gay player, so he's not trailblazing, but.... I don't know what he's doing....trolling for dates maybe.
  8. 30 Apr '13 20:39
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    Maybe he should have kept quiet.
    That's my view. Who cares if he's gay.
  9. 30 Apr '13 20:41
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    Maybe he should have kept quiet.
    Why should he have?
  10. 30 Apr '13 20:41
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Even if you don't think it's a big deal, is it a problem that Obama is proud of him?

    It will be a nice thing when no one will care, the problem is that there are those that do and that's why it's somewhat of a big deal.
    "It will be a nice thing when no one will care,"

    As long as it is front and center, it becomes a big deal, when it is really a personal matter.
  11. 30 Apr '13 20:43
    Originally posted by normbenign
    "It will be a nice thing when no one will care,"

    As long as it is front and center, it becomes a big deal, when it is really a personal matter.
    Meh... the problem is that there are many who have something against gay people who do make it a big deal.

    As soon as there actually is a collective "who cares?" when people come out as gay then this won't be a big deal at all. Unfortunately, that time isn't now.
  12. 30 Apr '13 20:46
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Why should he have?
    What is he hoping to achieve by coming out?
    Will it make any difference to him or his team
    or his sport?

    Seems to me that you have to be strange odd or queer
    to be a celebrity these days.

    Who gives a ****** that he's gay?

    Straight people can be celebrities too.
  13. 30 Apr '13 20:56
    Originally posted by sh76
    It does seem kind of bizarre that these sports locker rooms have communal showers when every new cheap-o gym and health club I've seen recently have individual stalls. It's probably some sort of a macho thing, which also goes a long way towards explaining why it's so tough for a gay athlete. Nobody (or almost nobody, I should say) cares if the meteorologist or ...[text shortened]... get it at all. Is there anyone who thinks that Collins actually did something wrong here?
    "It does seem kind of bizarre that these sports locker rooms have communal showers when every new cheap-o gym and health club I've seen recently have individual stalls. It's probably some sort of a macho thing, which also goes a long way towards explaining why it's so tough for a gay athlete.

    It is most likely a method of bonding for the team, but as long as the team isn't aware, I can't see why it creates any difficulty for the gay player, unless he gets uncontrollable erections seeing naked men. The locker room is the place of half time and pregame speeches, championship celebrations, lots of team emoting.

    Actually, I don't think most people care more about an athlete's sexual preference than any other person's. There are lots of effeminate male athletes, and butch females in sports, and people don't give them a second thought for the most part.
  14. 30 Apr '13 21:00
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    What is he hoping to achieve by coming out?
    Will it make any difference to him or his team
    or his sport?

    Seems to me that you have to be strange odd or queer
    to be a celebrity these days.

    Who gives a ****** that he's gay?

    Straight people can be celebrities too.
    It almost seems to be a cry to everyone, NOTICE ME!. He isn't going to be noticed for his scoring, rebounding, extraordinary defense. He's a dime a dozen role player, not to really diminish that, as it is still really hard to get a roster spot of any kind in the NBA. This seems a way to become a known instead of an unknown. Labron, Kobe, Jason!
  15. 30 Apr '13 21:30
    Originally posted by normbenign
    It almost seems to be a cry to everyone, NOTICE ME!. He isn't going to be noticed for his scoring, rebounding, extraordinary defense. He's a dime a dozen role player, not to really diminish that, as it is still really hard to get a roster spot of any kind in the NBA. This seems a way to become a known instead of an unknown. Labron, Kobe, Jason!
    "It almost seems to be a cry to everyone, NOTICE ME!"
    --Normbenign

    Would Normbenign like to claim that was the same motivation for
    a writer (Teinosuke) to reveal that he's a gay man in this forum?