Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 02 Feb '10 18:00
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8493280.stm

    The Pope has faced a backlash after urging Catholic bishops in England and Wales to fight the UK's Equality Bill with "missionary zeal".
    Pope Benedict XVI said the bill - which could end the right of the Church to ban gay people from senior positions - "violates natural law".


    .......

    It seems to me that this is another case of PC gone mad. This idea that religious institutions should be forced to employ certain people, whose life style is in disagreement (or isn't seen in a necessarily positive light) with the religion, doesn't seem very fair. I don't understand why the UK govt feels it needs to interfere with religious freedom in such manner. Just because the that is the current law it doesn't make it right, I believe the pope's comment wasn't in any way inappropiate like Gordon Brown claimed.

    any thoughts?
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    02 Feb '10 18:06 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8493280.stm

    [b]The Pope has faced a backlash after urging Catholic bishops in England and Wales to fight the UK's Equality Bill with "missionary zeal".
    Pope Benedict XVI said the bill - which could end the right of the Church to ban gay people from senior positions - "violates natural law".


    .......

    It seems t 's comment wasn't in any way inappropiate like Gordon Brown claimed.

    any thoughts?[/b]
    I agree with you.

    Furthermore, I am glad that at least two provisions in the First Amendment would prevent similar legislation in the US.

    I don't condone discriminating against gay people. I think it's backwards and wrong to do so.

    But for the government to tell a private religious organization how to behave within its own ranks and in choosing its own leaders? Ridiculous.
  3. 02 Feb '10 18:11
    Originally posted by sh76
    I agree with you.

    Furthermore, I am glad that at least two provisions in the First Amendment would prevent similar legislation in the US.

    I don't condone discriminating against gay people. I think it's backwards and wrong to do so.

    But for the government to tell a private religious organization how to behave within its own ranks and in choosing its own leaders? Ridiculous.
    I don't think gays should be discriminated against either but I think you have to have common sense when implementing legislation regarding this issue.
  4. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    02 Feb '10 18:20
    If a religion's rules and traditions are in disagreement with a society's basic right such as non-discrimination, then it is the religion who needs to accommodate.

    Freedom of religious thought does not include a free-pass around other basic rights.
  5. 02 Feb '10 18:30
    Originally posted by Palynka
    If a religion's rules and traditions are in disagreement with a society's basic right such as non-discrimination, then it is the religion who needs to accommodate.

    Freedom of religious thought does not include a free-pass around other basic rights.
    If we were to follow this, the church would also have to be forced to employ pedophiles, and other people with unusual sexual preferences. It is unrealistic to believe institutions shouldn't discriminate in any case, regardless of the circumstances.
    Furthermore, the church doesn't endorse homophobia, it isn't black and white like that.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_Roman_Catholicism
  6. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    02 Feb '10 18:36
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    If we were to follow this, the church would also have to be forced to employ pedophiles, and other people with unusual sexual preferences. It is unrealistic to believe institutions shouldn't discriminate in any case, regardless of the circumstances.
    Furthermore, the church doesn't endorse homophobia, it isn't black and white like that.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_Roman_Catholicism
    Are you stupid? Pedophilia is against the law.

    If other unusual sexual preferences were being ACTIVELY discriminated again, then yes, the church would have to stop discriminating based on that. This isn't about quotas, it's about active promotion of discrimination.
  7. 02 Feb '10 19:01
    Originally posted by Palynka
    Are you stupid? Pedophilia is against the law.

    If other unusual sexual preferences were being ACTIVELY discriminated again, then yes, the church would have to stop discriminating based on that. This isn't about quotas, it's about active promotion of discrimination.
    Pedophilia is against the law.

    homosexuality used to be against the law.
    The point is, its unrealistic to expect there should be no discrimination whatsoever, regardless of the circumstances.

    If other unusual sexual preferences were being ACTIVELY discriminated again, then yes, the church would have to stop discriminating based on that

    well, it isn't happening. The church preaches compassion towards homosexuals, they're not saying they're in some way inferior to other people, or that they should be hated simply because of their sexual preference. But that is not to say that we should pretend it is something normal, no govt bill can change this fact.
  8. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    02 Feb '10 19:15
    Originally posted by Palynka
    If a religion's rules and traditions are in disagreement with a society's basic right such as non-discrimination, then it is the religion who needs to accommodate.

    Freedom of religious thought does not include a free-pass around other basic rights.
    It's a good thing Henry VIII gave them the boot when he did.
  9. 02 Feb '10 19:25 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
    It's a good thing Henry VIII gave them the boot when he did.
    I hope you know he did that only so that he could have a divorce, there was no big theological reason behind it.
  10. Standard member Palynka
    Upward Spiral
    02 Feb '10 19:30
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    well, it isn't happening. The church preaches compassion towards homosexuals, they're not saying they're in some way inferior to other people, or that they should be hated simply because of their sexual preference. But that is not to say that we should pretend it is something normal, no govt bill can change this fact.
    Denial is strong with this one. Check out the Pope's words. Then check out if "missionary zeal" fits the definition of "actively".

    If you're not blushing, you're not worth it.
  11. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    02 Feb '10 19:33
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    I hope you know he did that only so that he could have a divorce, there was no big theological reason behind it.
    He did it to show them who was boss.
  12. 02 Feb '10 20:39 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8493280.stm

    [b]The Pope has faced a backlash after urging Catholic bishops in England and Wales to fight the UK's Equality Bill with "missionary zeal".
    Pope Benedict XVI said the bill - which could end the right of the Church to ban gay people from senior positions - "violates natural law".


    .......

    It seems t 's comment wasn't in any way inappropiate like Gordon Brown claimed.

    any thoughts?[/b]
    Being that the Catholic Church doesn't allow women to be clergy, it should probably worry more about this -- whatever reasoning that could be used to ban the Church from discriminating against gays could be used just as well regarding women.

    But unlike gays, the Church doesn't maintain that "being a woman" violates any natural laws.
  13. Subscriber Proper Knob
    Cornovii
    02 Feb '10 21:26 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8493280.stm

    [b]The Pope has faced a backlash after urging Catholic bishops in England and Wales to fight the UK's Equality Bill with "missionary zeal".
    Pope Benedict XVI said the bill - which could end the right of the Church to ban gay people from senior positions - "violates natural law".


    .......

    It seems t 's comment wasn't in any way inappropiate like Gordon Brown claimed.

    any thoughts?[/b]
    Just reaffirms the Catholic Church's utter irrelevance in a modern Britain.

    Take the situation in Uganda, where the government almost passed a bill that would've required people with previous 'convictions' for homosexuality to be executed. The bill also included penalties for individuals, companies, media organisations, or non-governmental organisations that support LGBT rights.

    Uganda is 42% Roman Catholic, would've been nice for Mr Pope-Doorknob to have piped up about this matter.
  14. 02 Feb '10 21:35
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8493280.stm

    [b]The Pope has faced a backlash after urging Catholic bishops in England and Wales to fight the UK's Equality Bill with "missionary zeal".
    Pope Benedict XVI said the bill - which could end the right of the Church to ban gay people from senior positions - "violates natural law".


    .......

    It seems t ...[text shortened]... 's comment wasn't in any way inappropiate like Gordon Brown claimed.

    any thoughts?[/b]
    Should the church be exempt from labor discrimination laws?
  15. 02 Feb '10 21:41 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    Just reaffirms the Catholic Church's utter irrelevance in a modern Britain.

    Take the situation in Uganda, where the government almost passed a bill that would've required people with previous 'convictions' for homosexuality to be executed. The bill also included penalties for individuals, companies, media organisations, or non-governmental organisatio ...[text shortened]... Roman Catholic, would've been nice for Mr Pope-Doorknob to have piped up about this matter.
    the Catholic Church is supposed to be against the death penalty. So even if the pope didn't want to look like he was in any way supporting gays, it would be easy for the pope to just condemn the use of a death penalty in Uganda regardless of the reason.

    Where's ivanhoe when we need him? --- maybe he could get CatholicVote to raise awareness of the pope's failure to take a stand on this.