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  1. 26 Nov '12 06:57 / 3 edits
    I wonder if these Republicans want us to burn our American flags.
    [quote]HOUSTON — In the two weeks since President Barack Obama's re-election, Republicans around the country have been wondering how to proceed. Some conservatives in Texas have been asking a far more pointed question: how to secede. Secession fever has struck parts of Texas, which Mitt Romney won by nearly 1.3 million votes. Sales of bumper stickers reading “Secede” — one for $2, or three for $5 — have increased at TexasSecede.com.

    In East Texas, a Republican official sent out an email newsletter saying it was time for Texas and Vermont to each “go her own way in peace” and sign a free-trade agreement among the states. A petition calling for secession that was filed by a Texas man on a White House website has received tens of thousands of signatures, and the Obama administration now must issue a response.

    And Larry Scott Kilgore, a perennial Republican candidate from Arlington, announced he was running for governor in 2014 and would legally change his name to Larry Secede Kilgore, with Secede in capital letters. As his Web page, secedekilgore.com, puts it: “Secession! All other issues can be dealt with later.”

    In Texas, talk of secession in recent years has steadily shifted to the center from the fringe right. It has emerged as a radical echo of the state Republican leadership's anti-Washington, pro-Texas-sovereignty mantra on a variety of issues, including health care and environmental regulations. . . .

    The official in East Texas, Peter Morrison, the treasurer of the Hardin County Republican Party, said he had received overwhelming support from conservative Texans . . . He said it may take time for “people to appreciate that the fundamental cultural differences between Texas and other parts of the United States may be best addressed by an amicable divorce, a peaceful separation.” . . .

    Republican Kilgore, the candidate who is changing his middle name, said he hadn't signed the White House petition, because he did not believe Texans needed to ask Washington for permission to leave. “Our economy is about 30 percent larger than that of Australia,” said Kilgore, 48, a telecommunications contractor. “Australia can survive on their own, and I don't think we'll have any problem at all surviving on our own in Texas.”[/quote)
  2. 26 Nov '12 06:58 / 1 edit
    Few of the public calls for secession have addressed the messy details, like what would happen to the state's many federal courthouses, prisons, military bases and parklands. Also, no one has said what would become of Kevin Patteson, director of the state's Office of State-Federal Relations, and no one has asked the Texas residents who received tens of millions of dollars in federal aid after last year's destructive wildfires for their thoughts on the subject.

    But all the secession talk has intrigued liberals as well. Caleb M. of Austin started his own petition on the White House website. He asked the federal government to allow Austin to withdraw from Texas and remain part of the United States, “in the event that Texas is successful in the current bid to secede.” It had more than 8,000 signatures as of Friday.

    http://www.chron.com/news/politics/article/Secession-succeeds-as-a-talking-point-4064199.php
  3. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    26 Nov '12 12:53
    Originally posted by moon1969
    [quote]Few of the public calls for secession have addressed the messy details, like what would happen to the state's many federal courthouses, prisons, military bases and parklands. Also, no one has said what would become of Kevin Patteson, director of the state's Office of State-Federal Relations, and no one has asked the Texas residents who received tens ...[text shortened]...
    http://www.chron.com/news/politics/article/Secession-succeeds-as-a-talking-point-4064199.php
    But of course certain wards within Austin might want to secede from the city and remain part of the Texan Nation, so we have to allow for that as well.

  4. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    26 Nov '12 16:17
    I see that Catalonia is slouching closer towards secession from Spain.

    Comments? Concerns? They-ain't-got-the-right's?
  5. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    26 Nov '12 19:20
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    I see that Catalonia is slouching closer towards secession from Spain.

    Comments? Concerns? They-ain't-got-the-right's?
    Personally, I support the right of any group to secede from any other, whether it be Catalonia, Azawad, Flanders, Slovakia, Croatia, Kurdistan, Quebec, Eritrea, Corsica, Biafra or Texas. People have a right to self-determination and should not be required to remain yoked into any geographical or governmental entity against their wishes. But it appears that only a small minority want Texas to actually secede. We'll soon see how the Catalonians feel.
  6. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    26 Nov '12 19:42 / 5 edits
    Some info:

    Catalonia likely means Goth-Alan-ia i.e. the land of the Goths and Alans. Unlike the Basques Catalonians are not indigenous to Iberia; they came from Germany. Likewise they weren't originally Latins like the Portuguese and Spanish. Catalonia's roots are with Charlemagne in France not Imperial Rome. Other ethnic groups in Spain are Arabs, Moors, Celts in addition to the Basques, Germanics and Latins. There are probably mestizos from the Americas as well. I don't know if there are many Sephardic Jews left in Spain. Probably there are still some.

    Catalonia is in northeast Spain near France. Barcelona is its capitol (thx rw). It used to be called the Spanish March by the Franks.
  7. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    26 Nov '12 19:55
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Some info:

    Catalonia likely means Goth-Alan-ia i.e. the land of the Goths and Alans. Unlike the Basques Catalonians are not indigenous to Iberia; they came from Germany. Likewise they weren't originally Latins like the Portuguese and Spanish. Catalonia's roots are with Charlemagne in France not Imperial Rome. Other ethnic groups in Spain are Arabs ...[text shortened]... ntain Barcelona or at least is near it. It used to be called the Spanish March by the Franks.
    "May" contain Barcelona? Barcelona is the capital of Catalonia.
  8. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    26 Nov '12 20:00
    Originally posted by rwingett
    "May" contain Barcelona? Barcelona is the capital of Catalonia.
    Thanks didn't want to look at a map.
  9. 26 Nov '12 20:17
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Personally, I support the right of any group to secede from any other, whether it be Catalonia, Azawad, Flanders, Slovakia, Croatia, Kurdistan, Quebec, Eritrea, Corsica, Biafra or Texas. People have a right to self-determination and should not be required to remain yoked into any geographical or governmental entity against their wishes. But it appears that only a small minority want Texas to actually secede. We'll soon see how the Catalonians feel.
    If one region of a country has much wealth from oil resources while the
    rest of that country has none, should that region have the right to secede?

    South Africa's pro-apartheid government used to promote the 'voluntary'
    secession of 'independent homelands'--'Bantustans'--for black ethnic groups,
    thus fragmenting black opposition toward apartheid. Each Bantustan would
    have been small, poor, weak, and economically dependent on South Africa.

    Among those in your list, Croatia, Eritrea, and Slovakia already have become
    independent countries. Biafra's attempt to secede from Nigeria was defeated
    after a protracted war. An independent Kurdistan would involve territorial
    concessions (in addition to some oil concessions) from Iran, Iraq, and Turkey,
    so it's unlikely to prevail against the opposition of those three countries.
  10. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    26 Nov '12 20:19 / 1 edit
    Mexico might invade the Lone Star "Nation". Can the Texas Rangers handle the Mexican Marines?
  11. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    26 Nov '12 21:20 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    If one region of a country has much wealth from oil resources while the
    rest of that country has none, should that region have the right to secede?

    South Africa's pro-apartheid government used to promote the 'voluntary'
    secession of 'independent homelands'--'Bantustans'--for black ethnic groups,
    thus fragmenting black opposition toward apartheid. E d Turkey,
    so it's unlikely to prevail against the opposition of those three countries.
    I'm perfectly aware of all these things. I intentionally made up a list that included some secessionist movements that have succeeded, some that may succeed, some that may not succeed and some that clearly did not succeed.

    With whites being a small minority in every South African province, it's difficult to see how any part of it could win a free and fair vote to secede from what is a predominantly black country. Even Western Cape Province is only 15.7% white. A candidate for secession would have to have a defined geographical area that is inhabited primarily by a particular ethnic, religious or ideological group, as did all those on my list (except Texas, which is why it would not secede even if it were technically feasible).
  12. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    26 Nov '12 22:32
    I thought sass seed described the commitment to continue being part of a storm long past that moment when that porn you've been torrenting has downloaded 100% and you are no longer a peer.
  13. 26 Nov '12 22:38
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Personally, I support the right of any group to secede from any other, whether it be Catalonia, Azawad, Flanders, Slovakia, Croatia, Kurdistan, Quebec, Eritrea, Corsica, Biafra or Texas. People have a right to self-determination and should not be required to remain yoked into any geographical or governmental entity against their wishes. But it appears that only a small minority want Texas to actually secede. We'll soon see how the Catalonians feel.
    I remember when Quebec was talking secession. I thought the US might have to send some troops up there to help Canada quell the Quebec rebels. Or just let Quebec secede, and the remainder of Canada could become the 51st state. (As I used to joke with my Canadian friends.)
  14. 26 Nov '12 22:42 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Mexico might invade the Lone Star "Nation". Can the Texas Rangers handle the Mexican Marines?
    There has been talk that with the help of massive numbers of illegal immigrants, a seceded Texas might just merge with and be taken over by Mexico. (Texas was once part of Mexico.)

    Yet, even with Texas losing $ in secession (i.e., it receives more federal dollars than it gives), Texas would come up with a decent military. Might could get military aid from US in the long run, but even without such aid, could cut more in education and other services and buy weapons from the US and China, for example, and even institute a draft.

    We may could be kind of like a big and more populated Israel, and doing bombing raids in other countries when needed, for instance. We also could have a nuclear weapon program.
  15. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    26 Nov '12 23:23
    Originally posted by moon1969
    There has been talk that with the help of massive numbers of illegal immigrants, a seceded Texas might just merge with and be taken over by Mexico. (Texas was once part of Mexico.)

    Yet, even with Texas losing $ in secession (i.e., it receives more federal dollars than it gives), Texas would come up with a decent military. Might could get military aid f ...[text shortened]... aids in other countries when needed, for instance. We also could have a nuclear weapon program.
    Wouldn't the South's secession be a Trojan foothold that helps with the NWO agenda of creating an American trading zone that incorporates all North and South American nations under one currency the Amero.