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  1. Standard memberuzless
    The So Fist
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    23 Mar '18 21:385 edits
    The question here is do you think by having a certain quota of women vs men and a diverse cast makes any difference to the quality of the film? In other words, are there better actors who will get left out due to the quota and therfore make the film not as good? Are we, as paying movie watchers, willing to watch lower quality films due to lower quality acting ability to ensure diversity? Or, do you think that all actors are equal in ability and deserve the same shot as anyone else?

    Below is the quote from Steven Spielberg talking about his new movie Ready Player One.
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Spielberg is also on side with the industry shakeup represented by the “inclusion rider” called for by Best Actress winner Frances McDormand in her March 4 Oscar acceptance speech. An inclusion rider requires studios and filmmakers to fulfil certain quotas of diversity among a film’s cast and crew.

    “Hey, you know, all power to those who are behind it,” Spielberg says of the inclusion rider. “I think it should go without saying and I think it’s a muscle we should have developed decades ago, but it’s a new muscle that we’re flexing for the first time now … it should be the unspoken norm, not the exception.”

    He takes pride in the fact that Ready Player One has a diverse cast, with key players that include African-American Lena Waithe, and actors of Asian descent Win Morisaki and young newcomer Philip Zhao.

    “The casting in this movie was always intended to be very diverse,” Spielberg says. “And also not just diverse in terms of colour and culture and nationality, but very diverse in terms of gender. Because I think the women carry the torch over the finish line in a dead heat with the men.”

    https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/movies/2018/03/23/steven-spielberg-wants-us-to-stop-being-distracted-as-he-gives-us-ready-player-one-a-movie-filled-with-distractions.html
  2. Standard membervivify
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    23 Mar '18 22:04
    The assumption that diversity comes at the cost of talent is a myth that people need to stop using. In any given field, whether acting, business, etc., there are usually enough non-whites who are just as talented as Caucasians (shocking, right?).
  3. Standard memberuzless
    The So Fist
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    23 Mar '18 22:143 edits
    Originally posted by @vivify
    The assumption that diversity comes at the cost of talent is a myth that people need to stop using. In any given field, whether acting, business, etc., there are usually enough non-whites who are just as talented as Caucasians (shocking, right?).
    who said that was shocking? The question is clearly asking what do YOU believe. (though i'm not sure why you focused on the non-white part of the question and left out the men vs women question....)

    Following your lead, can you provide us with a list of the top 40 white guy actors vs the top 40 non white male actors so we can compare acting ability? .

    These are Googles lists.....just look at the photos that come up first.

    https://www.google.ca/search?source=hp&ei=pny1Wp-3L-XF_Qa7vLSgAQ&q=top+male+actors&oq=top+male+actors&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l10.544.4993.0.5571.29.20.8.0.0.0.155.2054.13j7.20.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..1.28.2113...0i131k1j0i10k1j0i22i10i30k1j0i13k1.0.HQV-VvCAAOQ

    https://www.google.ca/search?ei=rXy1WrHxEZCK5wLl_ZXYCw&q=top+female+actors&oq=top+female+actors&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l10.29585.30613.0.31637.2.2.0.0.0.0.113.201.1j1.2.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.2.199...0i7i30k1j0i13k1.0.R0hImdZAd7U
  4. Zugzwang
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    23 Mar '18 22:193 edits
    Originally posted by @vivify
    The assumption that diversity comes at the cost of talent is a myth that people need to stop using.
    In any given field, whether acting, business, etc., there are usually enough non-whites who are just as talented as Caucasians (shocking, right?).
    Unlike the past practice of 'blackface', 'yellowface' continues to be practiced in Hollywood.
    Some white writers here have apparently argued that 'yellowface's NOT racist because
    white actors are more naturally talented than actors of East Asian heritage and therefore
    white actors must be superior to East Asian actors in playing East Asian characters.
    Most white writers here apparently cherish their narrow (often demeaning) stereotypes of East Asians.
  5. Standard membervivify
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    23 Mar '18 22:28
    Originally posted by @uzless
    who said that was shocking? The question is clearly asking what do YOU believe. (though i'm not sure why you focused on the non-white part of the question and left out the men vs women question....)

    Following your lead, can you provide us with a list of the top 40 white guy actors vs the top 40 non white male actors so we can compare acting ability? .
    ...[text shortened]... .31637.2.2.0.0.0.0.113.201.1j1.2.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.2.199...0i7i30k1j0i13k1.0.R0hImdZAd7U
    Between men and women, there are an equal amount of good actors. So diversity as far as gender isn't a hindrance, as long as the script doesn't necessitate one gender over another.

    As far as a "top 40" list, that's pointless. Acting isn't like sports where one player is objectively better than another. An actor's "rank" is determined by personal preferences and popularity.
  6. Behind the scenes
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    24 Mar '18 01:55
    Originally posted by @uzless
    The question here is do you think by having a certain quota of women vs men and a diverse cast makes any difference to the quality of the film? In other words, are there better actors who will get left out due to the quota and therfore make the film not as good? Are we, as paying movie watchers, willing to watch lower quality films due to lower quality act ...[text shortened]... s-to-stop-being-distracted-as-he-gives-us-ready-player-one-a-movie-filled-with-distractions.html
    In other words, are there better actors who will get left out due to the quota and therefore make the film not as good?



    This is a grey area in my opinion. I've seen movies where diversity has gone to silly extremes, i.e African Americans in a King Arthur legend movie, however calling a film "not as good" is much like calling a painting not as good. Let's remember we're dealing with movies here, which are works of art. We can't prove which is better than the other.
  7. Standard memberuzless
    The So Fist
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    28 Mar '18 18:43
    Originally posted by @vivify

    As far as a "top 40" list, that's pointless. Acting isn't like sports where one player is objectively better than another. An actor's "rank" is determined by personal preferences and popularity.
    Are you saying that Google's list of the best male actors is just a popularity contest? Well ok, how about we ask google to give us a list of the best black male actors vs a list of best white guys?

    1 Denzel washington
    2 will smith
    3 forest whitaker
    4 morgan freeman
    5 jamie foxx
    6 samual jackson
    7 eddie murphy
    8 cuba gooding
    9 laurence fishburne
    10 danny glover
    11 don cheadle
    12 james earl jones
    13 terence howard
    14 wesley snipes
    15 louis gosset
    16 djimon hounsou
    17 billy dee williams
    18 ice cube
    19 ving rhames
    20 chris rock
    (notables not in the top 20 include jeffrey wright, michael jordan, chris tucker, martin lawrence, keith david, mos def, dwayne johnson, blair underwood, leVar burton, john amos, LL COOl J)

    1 Gary Oldman
    2 Daniel Day lewis
    3 tom hanks
    4 kevin spacey
    5 robert deniro
    6 johnny depp
    7 jack nickolson
    8 leonardo cicaprio
    9 robert downey
    10 al pacino
    11 matt damon
    12 dustin hoffman
    13 brad pitt
    14 russell crowe
    15 anthony hopkins
    16 michael caine
    17 jeff bridges
    18 tom cruise
    19 clint eastwood
    20 ryan gosling
    (notable people not in the top 20 include matthew mconaughey, liam neeson, sean penn, christan bale, hugh jackman, ralph fiennes, george clooney, robert duvall, harrison ford, edward norton, bradley cooper, colin firth, ian mckellen, and viggo mortensen)

    So you claim an actors rank is determined by personal preference and popularity....looking at this list, do you still think that is true? Or do you think, maybe, acting ability has something to do with what your rank is?

    I think its fair to say that the top top 10 black actors on that list would be considered A-level actors and the rest are B and C level actors whereas just about everyone on the white guy list are A-level actors.

    So forget the skin color for a minute and just ask the question:

    Do you want to see a movie with the talent of A level actors or do you want to see a movie that has less talent with B and C level actors? There are plenty of B and C level white guy actors out there but I would much rather see a movie with A level actors like Denzel and Fishburne, than something with pauley shore and Pee wee herman who were chosen only to ensure a quota.....
  8. Standard membervivify
    rain
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    28 Mar '18 22:251 edit
    Originally posted by @uzless
    Are you saying that Google's list of the best male actors is just a popularity contest? Well ok, how about we ask google to give us a list of the best black male actors vs a list of best white guys?

    1 Denzel washington
    2 will smith
    3 forest whitaker
    4 morgan freeman
    5 jamie foxx
    6 samual jackson
    7 eddie murphy
    8 cuba gooding
    9 laurence fishburne ...[text shortened]... ence, keith david, mos def, dwayne johnson, blair underwood, leVar burton, john amos, LL COOl J)
    Google did NOT compile that list. Google pulls such lists from popular websites when people search for such terms; this wasn't compiled from a team hired by Google.

    So already, your entire argument is invalid because it's based on a false assertion.

    Secondly, NO ONE considers Ice Cube a "top black actor" based on acting ability. The fact that his inclusion on the list didn't jump out as a red flag speaks volumes about your knowledge of black actors.

    And lmao at naming Michael Jordan as a "notable" actor.

    If that list you Googled was worth anything, Daniel Kaluuya should've been included. He's been nominated for an Oscar and a Golden Globe. There are FAR more talented black actors than Ice Cube or "Michael Jordan".
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