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  1. Standard membervivify
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    30 Mar '18 03:19
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-28/trump-campaign-aide-communicated-with-ex-russian-spy-before-vote

    Trump Aide Rick Gates Communicated With Former Russian Spy Before Election

    Rick Gates, the campaign aide, told an attorney for a U.S. law firm that a Russian national they worked with in Ukraine was a former military intelligence officer, according to the filing late Tuesday in Washington federal court.

    Both Gates and the lawyer, Alex van der Zwaan, have pleaded guilty as part of Mueller’s investigation of Russian meddling in the election.
  2. Standard membervivify
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    30 Mar '18 03:26
    Hey conservatives: how much more evidence and Trump officials pleading guilty do you need before admitting the man you picked as your leader committed treason?
  3. Standard memberHandyAndy
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    30 Mar '18 03:43
    Originally posted by @vivify
    Hey conservatives: how much more evidence and Trump officials pleading guilty do you need before admitting the man you picked as your leader committed treason?
    They won't believe it until they hear it on Faux News.
  4. Subscriberkmax87
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    30 Mar '18 03:46
    Originally posted by @vivify
    Hey conservatives: how much more evidence and Trump officials pleading guilty do you need before admitting the man you picked as your leader committed treason?
    More fake news. And you know what they say, it's not all over till the fat lady sings, which is a great way of saying not even Stormy Daniels can sink me.....
  5. Seongnam, S. Korea
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    30 Mar '18 04:01
    I am not sure how relevant this actually is.

    We are talking about a successful Russian who was involved in the Russian intelligence community.

    Is he a spy? I don't know. But it would seem to be that he hasn't done anything that is directly relevant to the Pres. Trump campaign. Or can you show something like that?

    Paul Manafort's longtime employee, Russian-Ukrainian political operative Konstantin Kilimnik, told Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty that he and Manafort emailed each other "about Trump and everything" during the campaign.
    Kilimnik's comments came a day after The Washington Post reported that Manafort, Trump's campaign chairman at the time, sent Kilimnik an email in July 2016 asking him to offer Russian billionaire Oleg Deripaska "private briefings" about the campaign.

    "There were millions of emails," Kilimnik told RFERL in a text message. "We worked for 11 years. And we discussed a lot of issues, from Putin to women."

    "Of course we discussed Trump and everything," he said in another message. "A lot of things."

    Manafort had written a cryptic note to Kilimnik, who has been scrutinized by US federal investigators for suspected ties to Russian intelligence, shortly after being named a campaign strategist in April.

    "How do we use to get whole?" Manafort wrote.

    Jason Maloni, a representative for Manafort, told The Washington Post that Manafort had simply been trying to leverage his high-level role on the campaign to collect past debts.

    Kilimnik seemed to echo that statement, telling RFERL that "our clients owe us money."

    "Is there any violation of the law or proof of my work for KGB or whoever in those discussions?" he asked, according to RFERL.

    But it was Manafort who, according to Russian billionaire Deripaska, owed him money — not vice versa.

    Legal complaints filed by Deripaska's representatives in the Cayman Islands in 2014 said he gave Manafort $19 million in previous years to invest in a Ukrainian TV company called Black Sea Cable. The project fell through, and Manafort all but disappeared without paying Deripaska back, the filings claimed.

    Kilimnik insisted that "on the political side there is no case that can be made about my involvement in the US elections," according to RFERL.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/konstantin-kilimnik-explains-emails-with-paul-manafort-about-trump-2017-9

    Sure, you can choose to believe whateve ryou want about these things...

    But if you make a large claim, you should provide more evidence than "such a link exists."

    In a militarized state like Russia where all men pass through the national service, it isn't exactly that hard to reach in and find someone who has been connected to the apparatus.
  6. Joined
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    30 Mar '18 04:11
    Originally posted by @vivify
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-28/trump-campaign-aide-communicated-with-ex-russian-spy-before-vote

    [b]Trump Aide Rick Gates Communicated With Former Russian Spy Before Election

    Rick Gates, the campaign aide, told an attorney for a U.S. law firm that a Russian national they worked with in Ukraine was a former military intelli ...[text shortened]... leaded guilty as part of Mueller’s investigation of Russian meddling in the election.
    [/b]
    What did they plead guilty to? Perjury? That is hardly evidence of a coverup. People commit perjury for other reasons. Sometimes it is merely bad memory and with no intent to mislead.
    Despite Mueller's best efforts there is nobody closing in on Trump like you imply. I doubt Trump is worried.
  7. Joined
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    30 Mar '18 08:10
    Originally posted by @handyandy
    They won't believe it until they hear it on Faux News.
    Not even then. If Fox were to call Trump out, they'd just declare it a traitor and go back to following Breidbart, 4chan and RT.
  8. Standard membervivify
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    30 Mar '18 12:171 edit
    Originally posted by @metal-brain
    What did they plead guilty to? Perjury? That is hardly evidence of a coverup. People commit perjury for other reasons. Sometimes it is merely bad memory and with no intent to mislead.
    Despite Mueller's best efforts there is nobody closing in on Trump like you imply. I doubt Trump is worried.
    It's not only about lying, but a member of Trump's campaign working with Russian intelligence shortly before the election....in addition to everything else that already implicates Trump.

    A common tactic of right-wingers is to isolate one finding as if it's the only piece of info being used as evidence against Trump, while ignoring the long list of facts and indictments that already exist. Gates working with a Russian spy before the election is another bale of hay thrown on the camel's nearly broken back.
  9. Zugzwang
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    30 Mar '18 17:411 edit
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    I am not sure how relevant this actually is.

    We are talking about a successful Russian who was involved in the Russian intelligence community.

    Is he a spy? I don't know. But it would seem to be that he hasn't done anything that is directly relevant to the Pres. Trump campaign. Or can you show something like that?

    [quote]Paul Manafort's longtim ...[text shortened]... it isn't exactly that hard to reach in and find someone who has been connected to the apparatus.
    "In a militarized state like Russia where all men pass through the national service ..."
    --Philokalia

    I know (or knew) some Russian men who never served in the armed forces.
    Apart from medical exemptions, there were exceptions (though there may be changes) for
    men who were regarded as too valuable in their civilian jobs (e.g. the only doctor in a small town)
    or who had very young children. A friend of mine was very worried, however, about being
    conscripted after his educational deferment (he was a university student) expired.

    P.S. How quickly Philokalia (or one of his troll allies) thumbs down my post about Russian life!
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    31 Mar '18 04:48
    Originally posted by @philokalia
    I am not sure how relevant this actually is.

    We are talking about a successful Russian who was involved in the Russian intelligence community.

    Is he a spy? I don't know. But it would seem to be that he hasn't done anything that is directly relevant to the Pres. Trump campaign. Or can you show something like that?

    [quote]Paul Manafort's longtim ...[text shortened]... it isn't exactly that hard to reach in and find someone who has been connected to the apparatus.
    That's old news written in September 2017 and having nothing to do with Klimmik's communications with Rick Gates (not Manafort) while Gates was working for the Trump campaign shortly before the election. Those are another link in the chain of Russian government collusion with Trump's campaign to try to help him get elected and in return to get sanctions lifted.
  11. SubscriberSuzianne
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    31 Mar '18 09:56
    Originally posted by @metal-brain
    What did they plead guilty to? Perjury? That is hardly evidence of a coverup. People commit perjury for other reasons. Sometimes it is merely bad memory and with no intent to mislead.
    Despite Mueller's best efforts there is nobody closing in on Trump like you imply. I doubt Trump is worried.
    And sometimes, it is lying under oath.
  12. Standard memberRemoved
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    31 Mar '18 10:07
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    And sometimes, it is lying under oath.
    That’s a great point, suzianne
  13. SubscriberWOLFE63
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    31 Mar '18 13:25
    Originally posted by @shallow-blue
    Not even then. If Fox were to call Trump out, they'd just declare it a traitor and go back to following Breidbart, 4chan and RT.
    Unfortunately, I believe that is correct.

    But the low-information American voter is not completely at fault. Media manipulation by the ruling class and industry have always been insidious.
    Like a cancer, it's grown slowly...and now that the tumorous mass has become apparent... its victims are engaged in denial.
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