Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
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    13 Mar '17 15:33
    So sayeth Steve King, Republican Congressman from Iowa. He also says you Western gals better get cracking and make more babies as "You cannot rebuild your civilization with somebody else's babies," http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/steve-king-defends-tweet-calls-for-increased-birth-rate-to-protect-western-values/article/2617177

    Agree or disagree?
  2. Joined
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    13 Mar '17 15:39
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    So sayeth Steve King, Republican Congressman from Iowa. He also says you Western gals better get cracking and make more babies as "You cannot rebuild your civilization with somebody else's babies," http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/steve-king-defends-tweet-calls-for-increased-birth-rate-to-protect-western-values/article/2617177

    Agree or disagree?
    Just goes to show you what people will say when they view us as cattle.
  3. Standard memberfinnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
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    13 Mar '17 15:52
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    So sayeth Steve King, Republican Congressman from Iowa. He also says you Western gals better get cracking and make more babies as "You cannot rebuild your civilization with somebody else's babies," http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/steve-king-defends-tweet-calls-for-increased-birth-rate-to-protect-western-values/article/2617177

    Agree or disagree?
    Superior or inferior is a pointless if not entirely meaningless evaluation. Every nation likes to persuade its citizens that they are members of the best possible society in the best possible world. At worst this is an exercise in banal patriotism.

    What concerns me is the notion of America as a "city on a hill" which exists as a standard for everyone else to measure up to, because those that deviate from the American model will be subjected to interference and the use of force to bring them into line.

    Thomas Jefferson: "We feel that we are acting under obligations not confined to the limits of our own society. It is impossible not to be sensible that we are acting for all mankind; that circumstances denied to others, but indulged to us, have imposed on us the duty of proving what is the degree of freedom and self-government in which a society may venture to leave its individual members."

    Sorry mate but that self appointed role is not actually tolerable. FOAD
  4. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
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    13 Mar '17 15:53
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    So sayeth Steve King, Republican Congressman from Iowa. He also says you Western gals better get cracking and make more babies as "You cannot rebuild your civilization with somebody else's babies," http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/steve-king-defends-tweet-calls-for-increased-birth-rate-to-protect-western-values/article/2617177

    Agree or disagree?
    Well, I certainly agree that I'm superior... but to suggest I want another kid??? No bloody way! I already need an exorcist for the first one....
  5. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
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    13 Mar '17 15:56
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Well, I certainly agree that I'm superior... but to suggest I want another kid??? No bloody way! I already need an exorcist for the first one....
    OMG, I almost spit out my tea. I have TWO of them🙂
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
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    13 Mar '17 16:001 edit
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Superior or inferior is a pointless if not entirely meaningless evaluation. Every nation likes to persuade its citizens that they are members of the best possible society in the best possible world. At worst this is an exercise in banal patriotism.

    What concerns me is the notion of America as a "city on a hill" which exists as a standard for everyone e ...[text shortened]... individual members."

    Sorry mate but that self appointed role is not actually tolerable. FOAD
    Perhaps you could point to all the "interference" Thomas Jefferson did as President to nations that "deviated from the American model".

    Given the fact that virtually all nations were absolute tyrannies at the time of his quote, Jefferson had a point regardless of the flaws that existed then in the "American model". Nor does the quote state or imply any necessity to interfere anywhere.
  7. Joined
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    13 Mar '17 16:02
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    OMG, I almost spit out my tea. I have TWO of them🙂
    Probably a combination of genetics and the way he is raising the kid.
  8. Joined
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    13 Mar '17 17:07
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    So sayeth Steve King, Republican Congressman from Iowa. He also says you Western gals better get cracking and make more babies as "You cannot rebuild your civilization with somebody else's babies," http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/steve-king-defends-tweet-calls-for-increased-birth-rate-to-protect-western-values/article/2617177

    Agree or disagree?
    The only way to obtain a free civil society is to have a moral society that can be trusted with such freedom.

    It has nothing to do with race.
  9. Subscriberno1marauder
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    13 Mar '17 17:13
    Originally posted by whodey
    The only way to obtain a free civil society is to have a moral society that can be trusted with such freedom.

    It has nothing to do with race.
    "Moral" according to your standards I presume.
  10. Joined
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    13 Mar '17 17:321 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    "Moral" according to your standards I presume.
    What are "my standards"?

    The Golden Rule should suffice, unless you disagree with it.

    It is universal law.
  11. Joined
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    13 Mar '17 17:50
    Originally posted by finnegan
    What concerns me is the notion of America as a "city on a hill" which exists as a standard for everyone else to measure up to, because those that deviate from the American model will be subjected to interference and the use of force to bring them into line.

    Thomas Jefferson: "We feel that we are acting under obligations not confined to the limits of our ...[text shortened]... of freedom and self-government in which a society may venture to leave its individual members."
    I find that specific quotation rather benign. Surely all Jefferson's saying is that he conceives the United States as a free, democratic society which could, if successful, serve as a model for others. He implies that that model is what mankind (or most of mankind) naturally aspires to, but nothing in these sentences suggests that he thinks that model would need to be imposed on others.
  12. Standard memberDeepThought
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    13 Mar '17 19:19
    Originally posted by Teinosuke
    I find that specific quotation rather benign. Surely all Jefferson's saying is that he conceives the United States as a free, democratic society which could, if successful, serve as a model for others. He implies that that model is what mankind (or most of mankind) naturally aspires to, but nothing in these sentences suggests that he thinks that model would need to be imposed on others.
    It really depends on the context of the quote, which I'll repeat here for my own convenience:

    "We feel that we are acting under obligations not confined to the limits of our own society. It is impossible not to be sensible that we are acting for all mankind; that circumstances denied to others, but indulged to us, have imposed on us the duty of proving what is the degree of freedom and self-government in which a society may venture to leave its individual members."

    He uses the word "actions", under what circumstances is he acting? If this were in the context of suppressing native Americans, for example, and so imposing the society he thinks is right on them then finnegan is right. If on the other hand the "actions" he speaks of are the construction of the US state, which seems to be the case based on the second sentence, then he is saying that their duty to produce as free as society as is possible is greater because the US would provide a model of a free society, and finnegan is wrong. So I wonder if anyone could provide the context of the statement for me.
  13. Standard membervivify
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    13 Mar '17 19:421 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    So sayeth Steve King, Republican Congressman from Iowa. He also says you Western gals better get cracking and make more babies as "You cannot rebuild your civilization with somebody else's babies," http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/steve-king-defends-tweet-calls-for-increased-birth-rate-to-protect-western-values/article/2617177

    Agree or disagree?
    Western societies tend to be more wealthy, more technologically advanced, have less human rights violations toward their citizens, more equality for women, and better schools. So I guess we can say western societies are "better" than others.

    The problem with the "babies" comment, is that it reveals "western" is being used as a code word for "white". He's basically saying that whites need to preserve their society by making sure enough of them are around, lest these foreigners control any part of our government in the future, or be the dominant faces.
  14. Subscriberno1marauder
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    13 Mar '17 20:011 edit
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    It really depends on the context of the quote, which I'll repeat here for my own convenience:

    "We feel that we are acting under obligations not confined to the limits of our own society. It is impossible not to be sensible that we are acting for all mankind; that circumstances denied to others, but indulged to us, have imposed on us the duty of provi ...[text shortened]... and finnegan is wrong. So I wonder if anyone could provide the context of the statement for me.
    It's in a letter to Joseph Priestley dated in June 19, 1802 I believe (on my phone so I can't give a link).
  15. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    13 Mar '17 20:141 edit
    Originally posted by vivify
    Western societies tend to be more wealthy, more technologically advanced, have less human rights violations toward their citizens, more equality for women, and better schools. So I guess we can say western societies are "better" than others.

    The problem with the "babies" comment, is that it reveals "western" is being used as a code word for "white". He's ...[text shortened]... est these foreigners control any part of our government in the future, or be the dominant faces.
    Why do you make that inference? It could just as easily mean white, black, brown, etc., of people who are already in the US and part of the American cultural fabric. Nobody would deny, for example, that African Americans are an indispensable part of the American cultural fabric.

    Limiting immigration so as not to change the cultural makeup of the country has a long tradition in immigration rules.
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