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  1. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    31 Jan '14 14:04 / 1 edit
    Amanda Knox had been found guilty of murder by an Italian court. I'm not a lawyer, so can anyone tell me if she can be sent back to Italy to face sentencing? I'm not sure...

    http://gma.yahoo.com/amanda-knox-39-couldn-39-t-believe-hearing-071851472--abc-news-topstories.html?vp=1
  2. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    31 Jan '14 14:32 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by bill718
    Amanda Knox had been found guilty of murder by an Italian court. I'm not a lawyer, so can anyone tell me if she can be sent back to Italy to face sentencing? I'm not sure...

    http://gma.yahoo.com/amanda-knox-39-couldn-39-t-believe-hearing-071851472--abc-news-topstories.html?vp=1
    Maybe. http://abcnews.go.com/International/amanda-knoxs-guilty-verdict-raises-specter-extradition/story?id=22296604&singlePage=true

    If an Italian was found guilty of a murder committed in the US, I think we would expect them to be extradited. I see no reason why the US shouldn't honor an Italian extradition request in this case assuming it is eventually made.
  3. 31 Jan '14 15:07
    Originally posted by bill718
    Amanda Knox had been found guilty of murder by an Italian court. I'm not a lawyer, so can anyone tell me if she can be sent back to Italy to face sentencing? I'm not sure...

    http://gma.yahoo.com/amanda-knox-39-couldn-39-t-believe-hearing-071851472--abc-news-topstories.html?vp=1
    Maybe she should hook up with Justin Biber.
  4. 31 Jan '14 18:03
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Maybe. http://abcnews.go.com/International/amanda-knoxs-guilty-verdict-raises-specter-extradition/story?id=22296604&singlePage=true

    If an Italian was found guilty of a murder committed in the US, I think we would expect them to be extradited. I see no reason why the US shouldn't honor an Italian extradition request in this case assuming it is eventually made.
    I think the only reasons Knox wouldn't be extradicted is either that Italy's case summary reveals big holes, or Italy doesn't request extradition.

    "Article X of the current U.S.-Italy extradition treaty states that the requesting nation must present a case summary that provides “a reasonable basis to believe that the person sought committed the offense for which extradition is requested.”"

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/03/26/meredith_kercher_murder_case_amanda_knox_will_never_be_extradited_to_italy.html
  5. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    31 Jan '14 18:12 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by JS357
    I think the only reasons Knox wouldn't be extradicted is either that Italy's case summary reveals big holes, or Italy doesn't request extradition.

    "Article X of the current U.S.-Italy extradition treaty states that the requesting nation must present a case summary that provides “a reasonable basis to believe that the person sought committed the offense for ...[text shortened]... crime/2013/03/26/meredith_kercher_murder_case_amanda_knox_will_never_be_extradited_to_italy.html
    The provision cited in the article is in Article 10, Section 3 which is specifically relevant only to: A request for extradition which relates to a person who has not yet been convicted :

    http://internationalextraditionblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/italy.pdf

    Knox has been convicted and the relevant requirements under Article X will surely be easily met if the Italians request extradition.
  6. 31 Jan '14 18:35 / 2 edits
    Here's a recent case of a state refusing to extradite a (new) citizen:

    On 16 September 1997, Samuel Sheinbein (age 17) and Aaron Benjamin
    Needle killed Alfredo Enrique Tello Jr. in the United States. The police
    believe the murder was carefully planned. After his arrest, Aaron Needle
    committed suicide by hanging himself. With the aid of his father, Sol
    Sheinbein (a lawyer who held both US and Israeli citizenship), Samuel
    Sheinbein fled to Israel (which he never had even previously visited).
    Under Israel's Law of Return (only for Jews), Samuel Sheinbein was
    granted instant Israeli citizenship. Reportedly, then his brother, Robert,
    flew to Israel to congratulate Samuel for reaching a safe haven and
    helped him to celebrate by providing some wine and a prostitute for him.
    All seemed to be going well for the Sheinbein family.

    The US government asked Israel to extradite Samuel Sheinbein to face
    first-degree murder charges. Eventually, Israel's Supreme Court blocked
    his extradition. Samuel Sheinbein was tried in Israel and accepted a
    plea bargain agreement for a 24 year sentence (with eligibility for parole
    in 16 years). Sol Sheinbein was charged with obstruction of justice and
    disbarred in the USA; he now lives and works in Israel. The Knesset has
    amended the law to prevent future Jewish criminals without a 'residential
    connection' to Israel from fleeing to avoid extradition for their crimes.

    Presumably, neither Samuel nor Sol Sheinbein will ever return to the USA.
    To this day, Alfredo Tello's family believes that justice was not done.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Sheinbein
  7. 31 Jan '14 19:14
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The provision cited in the article is in Article 10, Section 3 which is specifically relevant only to: A request for extradition which relates to a person who has [b]not yet been convicted :

    http://internationalextraditionblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/italy.pdf

    Knox has been convicted and the relevant requirements under Article X will surely be easily met if the Italians request extradition.[/b]
    I stand corrected. I think the article I quoted was written after the earlier conviction was overturned and before this recent one.
  8. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    31 Jan '14 19:14
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Here's a recent case of a state refusing to extradite a (new) citizen:

    On 16 September 1997, Samuel Sheinbein (age 17) and Aaron Benjamin
    Needle killed Alfredo Enrique Jr. in the United States. The Maryland police
    believe the murder was carefully planned. After his arrest, Aaron Needle
    committed suicide by hanging himself. With the aid of his fat ...[text shortened]... lo's family believes that justice was not done.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Sheinbein
    The Kosher Nostra is targetting Latinos now? They better be careful...

    In other news a white Hispanic named Juan Pablo Galavis has just joined the cast of the Bachelor.
  9. 31 Jan '14 19:36
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    The Kosher Nostra is targetting Latinos now? They better be careful...

    In other news a white Hispanic named Juan Pablo Galavis has just joined the cast of the Bachelor.
    As far as I can recall, Samuel Sheinbein's killing of Alfredo Enrique Tello led
    to some friction between the Latino and Jewish communities in the USA.
    Some Latinos suspected that the Sheinbein family did its utmost to help
    Samuel Sheinbein evade justice in part because the Sheinbeins regarded
    a Latino's life as much less important than a Jew's life.

    On 11 October 1985, Alex Odeh, a US citizen of Palestinian heritage, was
    murdered by a 'terrorist' bomb in the USA. No one has ever been arrested.
    The prime suspects are believed to have been affiliated with the Jewish
    Jewish Defense League (JDL), an extreme right-wing Zionist group with a
    a long record of political violence. Keith Fuchs and Andy Green (two of
    the FBI's suspects) are believed to be living safely today near a Jewish
    settlement in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. The other suspect, Robert
    Manning, was sentenced to life in prison for murdering someone else (not
    Alex Odeh) in the USA. I doubt that Israel ever will extradite (or seriously
    attempt to find) Keith Fuchs or Andy Green for Alex Odeh's murder.
  10. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    31 Jan '14 20:09
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Here's a recent case of a state refusing to extradite a (new) citizen:

    On 16 September 1997, Samuel Sheinbein (age 17) and Aaron Benjamin
    Needle killed Alfredo Enrique Tello Jr. in the United States. The police
    believe the murder was carefully planned. After his arrest, Aaron Needle
    committed suicide by hanging himself. With the aid of his father ...[text shortened]... lo's family believes that justice was not done.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Sheinbein
    A 17 year old getting 16-24 years for murder doesn't strike me as overly lenient though I think he should have been extradited.
  11. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    31 Jan '14 20:15
    Originally posted by JS357
    I stand corrected. I think the article I quoted was written after the earlier conviction was overturned and before this recent one.
    True, but the article quoted the provision after stating:

    I predict that, even if she is convicted in absentia, there’s no way that Knox will be extradited back to Italy to serve her sentence.

    Perhaps he will wind up being correct but it was still poor research to quote a provision that would not apply in such a circumstance.
  12. 31 Jan '14 20:52 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    A 17 year old getting 16-24 years for murder doesn't strike me as
    overly lenient though I think he should have been extradited.
    I cannot speak for Alfredo Enrique Tello's family, but, when family members
    have spoken to the media, they have said they are very dissatisfied with
    the outcome. American legal observers have said that Samuel Sheinbein
    probably would have received a significantly harsher sentence (perhaps
    life in prison) if he had been convicted of first-degree murder in Maryland.

    Reportedly ('The Washington Post' ), Alfredo Tello (a Latino) and Aaron
    Needle (a Jew with a troubled past; he already had been expelled from
    several schools) might have become rivals for the affections of Hannah
    Choi (a Korean). Aaron told Hannah that his parents never would tolerate
    it if he brought a black person home, yet he claimed they respected Asians.
    Apparently attempting both to impress her and to seek her sympathy,
    Aaron said that he hoped to straighten out his troubled life by joining the
    Marines. He admitted he was still a virgin (might she be able to help him?).
    Hannah thought Aaron was smart but obnoxious, and she felt more at ease
    around Alfredo. Aaron and Alfredo would exchange crude racial insults in
    front of Hannah, which Aaron seemed to enjoy doing more. Hannah
    decided to avoid Aaron in the future. When Aaron next ran across her
    by chance, he was furious with Hannah, cursing her and acting extremely
    possessively toward her. Feeling frustrated, if not also threatened, Hannah
    told Aaron that he reminded her of a serial killer. Alfredo got into a brief
    fight (throwing a punch) with Aaron, which Aaron seemed not to take too
    seriously. But Alfredo had humiliated Aaron in front of Hannah. Hannah
    told Alfredo that she considered Aaron 'crazy' and said that she had a
    'weird feeling' that Aaron might pursue revenge. But Alfredo told her that
    he was not afraid of Aaron. By that time, Aaron and Samuel Sheinbein
    were planning how to murder Alfredo, which they did several days later.
    Aaron Needle committed suicide; Samuel Sheinbein fled to Israel.

    Alfredo Tello's family never had the opportunity to face Samuel Sheinbein
    in court, hear him admit his guilt or explain his motives or offer any apology.
    It seems to me that the Sheinbein family was motivated by attempting to
    get the lightest possible punishment for Samuel Sheinbein and presumably
    would have been happy if he never had been put on trial.
  13. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    01 Feb '14 02:10
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I cannot speak for Alfredo Enrique Tello's family, but, when family members
    have spoken to the media, they have said they are very dissatisfied with
    the outcome. American legal observers have said that Samuel Sheinbein
    probably would have received a significantly harsher sentence (perhaps
    life in prison) if he had been convicted of first-degree murder ...[text shortened]... nt for Samuel Sheinbein and presumably
    would have been happy if he never had been put on trial.
    Yes; Sheinbein's family surely would have wanted him to get the lightest sentence possible.

    Still he was 17 years old and a sentence of 16-24 years doesn't seem excessively lenient to me.
  14. 01 Feb '14 06:42
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    True, but the article quoted the provision after stating:

    I predict that, [b]even if she is convicted in absentia
    , there’s no way that Knox will be extradited back to Italy to serve her sentence.

    Perhaps he will wind up being correct but it was still poor research to quote a provision that would not apply in such a circumstance.[/b]
    Yes.
  15. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    01 Feb '14 19:02
    A couple of other articles where analysts agree with my sentiment that Knox is likely to get extradited if she loses on appeal:

    Dershowitz, the Harvard professor, said that he believes Knox will be extradited if she loses her appeal in Italy.
    “The U.S. seeks extradition of more people than any country in the world,” he said. “We’re trying to get Snowden back and we’re not going to extradite someone convicted of murder?”

    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/31/22524338-why-us-might-send-amanda-knox-back-to-italy-if-she-loses-appeal?
    lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=5

    And why the Italian procedure wouldn't qualify as double jeopardy:

    Knox was convicted in the first instance, than that conviction was thrown out on appeal. That appellate proceeding (unlike a US proceeding) actually re-opened all of the facts and is essentially a new trial. But it is still an appellate proceeding and in the US we would not treat an appellate proceeding that reversed a conviction as an acquittal for purposes of double jeopardy. Moreover, it would essentially punish the Italian legal system for giving defendants extraordinary rights of appeal and tons more due process than they would get in the U.S. If Knox had been convicted in the U.S, she could not have re-opened all of the evidence the way she did in Italy, and probably would have had a harder time getting her original conviction overturned. So it seems crazy to call “unfair” a legal system which actually gave Knox a completely new chance to challenge her conviction.

    http://opiniojuris.org/2014/01/31/hows-media-amanda-knox-reporting-much-better-started-quoting/

    (I'm not sure if I agree with the author of the second piece's claim that an actual instance of double jeopardy would be legally irrelevant to extradition; the Fifth Amendment may not constrain Italy but it does protect the rights of people present in the United States).