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  1. 04 May '16 21:08 / 2 edits
    http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/apr/19/eight-things-not-to-say-to-someone-facing-online-abuse

    "Eight things not to say to someone facing online abuse"
    --Laura Bates (19 April 2016)

    Like many women who write on the internet, Laura Bates has received
    much abuse, including explicit threats of rape and other forms of violence.

    "We know that very similar posts made by accounts presenting as male or female get a very
    different reaction, so it isn't about what you say, it's about the prejudices of those responding."
    --Laura Bates
  2. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    05 May '16 16:42 / 8 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/apr/19/eight-things-not-to-say-to-someone-facing-online-abuse

    "Eight things not to say to someone facing online abuse"
    --Laura Bates (19 April 2016)

    Like many women who write on the internet, Laura Bates has received
    much abuse, including explicit threats of rape and other forms of violence.

    "We kno ...[text shortened]... so it isn't about what you say, it's about the prejudices of those responding."
    --Laura Bates
    Abuse on the internet is much the same as abuse in our society. It's regrettable, it's wrong....and it's LIFE. We can change our usernames, turn off our accounts, and still be exposed to some of this. I don't want to sound like an old fuddy duddy, but 40+ years ago when I was a teenager we faced a different kind of abuse. If a bully wanted to walk up to you and punch you in the face, he did! You either learned to use your fists, or you took the abuse as part of your day. When I was beaten on several times in school, my parents reaction was: "Better learn to toughen up, boy!" Our teachers didn't care about any of this as long as it didn't disrupt class. I don't approve of online abuse, and I especially don't approve of it against females, but I can assure there are far worse things in life than a threatening tweet. Now, I am sure I'll face some slamming retort by Duchess for my insensitive attitude, but the fact is there is only so much that can be done in this area. It may come as a shock to many here, but guys get threatened just as much as ladies. So ladies, you want equality? Welcome to equality! .
  3. 05 May '16 19:46 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by bill718
    Abuse on the internet is much the same as abuse in our society. It's regrettable, it's wrong....and it's LIFE. We can change our usernames, turn off our accounts, and still be exposed to some of this. I don't want to sound like an old fuddy duddy, but 40+ years ago when I was a teenager we faced a different kind of abuse. If a bully wanted to walk up to you ...[text shortened]... eatened just as much as ladies. So ladies, you want equality? Welcome to equality! .
    The troll Bill718 keeps showing his poor reading comprehension and his ignorant callous sexism.
    (Finnegan already has condemned Bill718's misogyny in addition to his obsessive trolling of me.)

    "So ladies, you want equality? Welcome to equality!"
    --Bill718

    Laura Bates (among many women) already has pointed out that women who write on the
    internet tend *not* to receive the same treatment as men who write the same (or very similar)
    things on the internet. Women tend to receive significantly more abuse than men do.
    Women who write on the internet receive explicit threats of rape or other forms of violence.
    Has Bill718 ever received such threats? Or does Bil718 regard it as acceptable to make such threats?

    There's a recent video, 'More Than Mean' (you can find it on YouTube), about some of the abuse aimed at American women in sports journalism (a male-dominated public space).

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/29/sports/more-than-mean-women-journalists-julie-decaro-sarah-spain.html

    "Social Media, Where Sports Fans Congregate and Misogyny Runs Amok"
    --Julie Macur (28 April 2016)

    "Messages from men who wanted them dead. Or raped. Or beaten by their boyfriends."
    --Julie Macur

    Sarah Spain (sports journalist) has said that she expects criticism for her opinions about sports.
    She also routinely gets personally attacked by men about her appearance, femininity, or sexuality.
    Internet abuse against women is much more intimate and sexualized than that against men.

    As a chess website, RHP is a male-dominated public space, and misogyny thrives here.
    And many men claim to wonder why more women don't like to play (or be around) chess.
    Many men (like Bill718) want their public space to be kept safe for their sexism and misogyny.
  4. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    05 May '16 22:36
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    The troll Bill718 keeps showing his poor reading comprehension and his ignorant callous sexism.
    (Finnegan already has condemned Bill718's misogyny in addition to his obsessive trolling of me.)

    "So ladies, you want equality? Welcome to equality!"
    --Bill718

    Laura Bates (among many women) already has pointed out that women who write on the
    internet ...[text shortened]...
    Many men (like Bill718) want their public space to be kept safe for their sexism and misogyny.
    I'm so very sorry if my real life facts have offended Duchess, but the fact is "threats" of rape or violence are much different than the physical act of rape of violence (believe it or not!) Duchess and her clear dislike of anything male has blinded her to this fact.
  5. 05 May '16 22:51 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by bill718
    I'm so very sorry if my real life facts have offended Duchess, but the fact is "threats" of rape or violence are much different than the physical act of rape of violence (believe it or not!) Duchess and her clear dislike of anything male has blinded her to this fact.
    The sexist troll Bill718 keeps refusing to concede the fact that women are abused in ways that men are not.
    Many women who write on the internet receive threats of rape; few men receive such threats.

    I would add that threats of putting bombs in public places are not the same as putting bombs in public places.
    So would Bill718 prefer that the police *not* take seriously threats of putting bombs in public places?
    The sexist troll Bill718 apparently has a reason, however, not to take rape threats seriously.

    Given his record of blatant lying, Bill718 may be expected to keep lying in attempting to
    support his absurd claim that there's 'equality' of treatment for men and women in public
    spaces, such as the internet. There are studies finding that women are more abused.
    But Bill718 may be expected to ignore all evidence that contradict his cherished 'men are so oppressed' beliefs.

    So does Bill718 see nothing wrong with threatening women with rape or other forms of violence?
    I expect that women will know that Bill718's another misogynist who pollutes the internet.
  6. 06 May '16 02:49 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/apr/19/eight-things-not-to-say-to-someone-facing-online-abuse

    "Eight things not to say to someone facing online abuse"
    --Laura Bates (19 April 2016)

    Like many women who write on the internet, Laura Bates has received
    much abuse, including explicit threats of rape and other forms of violence.

    "We kno ...[text shortened]... so it isn't about what you say, it's about the prejudices of those responding."
    --Laura Bates
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/14/insults-rape-threats-writers-online-harassment

    "Insults and rape threats: Writers shouldn't have to deal with this."
    --Jessica Valenti

    "...when given anonymity and keyboard, some men will use the opportunity to harass and threaten."
    --Jessica Valenti

    That's the abusive internet that misogynistic trolls (like Bill718) apparently want to keep fighting for.

    "I wouldn't have to leave my house in a hurry...when the authorities considered a particular threat credible and dangerous."
    --Jessica Valenti

    She should expect no sympathy from the sneering sexist troll Bill718.
  7. 06 May '16 13:04
    Originally posted by bill718
    Abuse on the internet is much the same as abuse in our society. It's regrettable, it's wrong....and it's LIFE. We can change our usernames, turn off our accounts, and still be exposed to some of this. I don't want to sound like an old fuddy duddy, but 40+ years ago when I was a teenager we faced a different kind of abuse. If a bully wanted to walk up to you ...[text shortened]... eatened just as much as ladies. So ladies, you want equality? Welcome to equality! .
    "Abuse on the internet is much the same as abuse in our society."
    no it's not. if you stalk someone "in our society", if you make death threats, rape threats, you face criminal charges.

    "It's regrettable, it's wrong....and it's LIFE."
    murder threats are part of life? do we let car crashes slide in "LIFE" ? don't we seek out why they happened, who is responsible? don't we make laws to try and prevent them?


    "We can change our usernames, turn off our accounts,"
    today online presence is a requirement. erasing it is not an option.


    "I don't want to sound like an old fuddy duddy"
    but you will
    ", but 40+ years ago when I was a teenager we faced a different kind of abuse. If a bully wanted to walk up to you and punch you in the face, he did! You either learned to use your fists, or you took the abuse as part of your day"
    until some realised that's moronic and barbaric and enforced laws regarding this abuse.

    "When I was beaten on several times in school, my parents reaction was: "Better learn to toughen up, boy!" "
    great advice. the past was great. such wonderful segregation, lack of vaccines, police brutality, no access to information.

    "Our teachers didn't care about any of this as long as it didn't disrupt class."
    at this point it occurred to me that i can't mock every sentence in your post since they are all pretty much the same: "Horrible stuff happened in the past and fixing it made us weak. If horrible stuff happens today, tough luck"


    "I don't approve of online abuse, and I especially don't approve of it against females, but I can assure there are far worse things in life than a threatening tweet."
    yes, one shouldn't complain about living in constant fear for one's life because there is someone else who is slightly worse off.

    "Now, I am sure I'll face some slamming retort by Duchess for my insensitive attitude, "
    from me as well and from anyone with a smidgen of common sense


    "but the fact is there is only so much that can be done in this area"
    especially true if one doesn't want to bother

    "It may come as a shock to many here, but guys get threatened just as much as ladies"
    i am not shocked because it is not true. it is the tired moronic argument that "men have it just as bad as women" "whites are just as discriminated against as blacks" "christians are under attack" etc.

    i am not even shocked that i must change my opinion of you. i thought you were decent but right now i can't remember why.
  8. 06 May '16 20:54
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi to Bill718
    "Abuse on the internet is much the same as abuse in our society."
    no it's not. if you stalk someone "in our society", if you make death threats, rape threats, you face criminal charges.

    "It's regrettable, it's wrong....and it's LIFE."
    murder threats are part of life? do we let car crashes slide in "LIFE" ? don't we seek out why they happen ...[text shortened]... t i must change my opinion of you. i thought you were decent but right now i can't remember why.
    The sexist troll Bill718 forgot to add that "40+ years ago when (he) was a teenager" there
    were no laws (or at least no effective enforcement of them) against sexual harassment.
    So many men felt free to harass women, and women were about helpless to oppose it.
    (A male boss could demand that his female secretary sleep with him in order to keep her job.)
    And it seemed impossible for a woman who was raped on a date to bring her rapist to justice.

    Bill718's an old white American man who seems extremely embittered and threatened
    by the changes in the USA since he was growing up. (Bill718 has complained of repeatedly
    losing when competing for jobs against non-whites or women, who he claims were unfairly
    helped by affirmative action.) So Bill718 seems much more comfortable in the more
    overtly racist, sexist American society of '40+ years ago'.
  9. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    06 May '16 21:16 / 2 edits
    Bill718's an old white American man who seems extremely embittered and threatened
    by the changes in the USA since he was growing up. (Bill718 has complained of repeatedly losing when competing for jobs against non-whites or women, who he claims were unfairly helped by affirmative action.) So Bill718 seems much more comfortable in the more overtly racist, sexist American society of '40+ years ago'.

    Wrong again Duchess! bill718 is a happy camper with a growing business, a good wife and a good life. I've had some hard knocks in life, no doubt about it, but came through it all just fine. The difference between bill718 and Duchess is I do not attack anyone personally whenever I disagree with them, I try to respect the opinions of others, even if they run counter to my own, and I do not turn disagreements into personal vendettas.

    What you fail to comprehend here is the fact that the internet can only be "governed" up to a point. I am sorry the young lady in question here has been threatened. I hope the offending party(s) is arrested and faces the full penalty of law.

    You may find this hard to believe Duchess, but several times I sincerely reached out to you in an attempt to mend our differences, and to try to discuss issues such as this in a civilized manner, though we sometimes disagree, but every time you resorted to personally attacking me simply because my views did not align with yours. Now I see you for who you really are...a bitter person with a vendetta against all males (especially older white males) I am sorry you harbor such bitterness, but can assure you that I do not.

    P.S. Have a nice day!
  10. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    06 May '16 21:42
    Originally posted by bill718
    I'm so very sorry if my real life facts have offended Duchess, but the fact is "threats" of rape or violence are much different than the physical act of rape of violence (believe it or not!) Duchess and her clear dislike of anything male has blinded her to this fact.
    I'd regard a threat of rape as I would a threat of murder, clearly it is not the same as actually carrying out the threat, but nevertheless highly distressing to the threatened. Having said that I'm confident that here the site administrators would remove any such post and ban the poster, at least from the forums. I've never seen any such post here, which may just mean it was removed before I saw it. So it's not entirely clear to me what the purpose of the OP is.
  11. 06 May '16 21:45 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by bill718
    Bill718's an old white American man who seems extremely embittered and threatened
    by the changes in the USA since he was growing up. (Bill718 has complained of repeatedly losing when competing for jobs against non-whites or women, who he claims were unfairly helped by affirmative action.) So Bill718 seems much more comfortable in the more overtly racist, s ...[text shortened]... lly older white males) I am sorry you harbor such bitterness, but can assure you that I do not.
    The abusive troll Bill718 keeps lying. In fact, Bill718 has often jumped into threads where
    I had written nothing to or about him for the sole purpose of making personal attacks against me.
    Some other writers (white men) already have condemned Bill718's obsessive trolling.

    Here's part of what Finnegan wrote to Bill718, condemning his abusive trolling:
    "Women on this site know that if they contribute to the debates Forum they risk being subjected
    to *abusive tirades by ignorant trolls*....Trolls don't like being made idiots of in public and
    respond with tasteless aggression, exposing their foul mindsets for all to see. ...
    Get used to it Bill718. ... your abuse (of Duchess64) is not going to stop that."
    --Finnegan (19 April 2016, page, 1 post 4, "American Rabbi's Comments on Rape" )
    Zahlanzi (page 1, post 3 of the same thread above) also condemned Bill718's trolling.

    "What is wrong with you (Bill718)? ... You sound like a 5 year old with a grudge (against Duchess64)."
    --Zahlanzi (to Bill718, 23 April 2016, 'How to Spot a Terrorist on Your Flight' )

    And as for the pathological liar Bill718's ludicrous offer of 'friendship', I am not that gullible.
    Bil718's denial that he makes personal attacks is another of his many flagrant lies.

    Here's what Finnegan wrote to the sexist troll Bill718:
    "She (Duchess64) is not afflicted by a cringing desire to be your friend. You (Bill718) will
    eventually need to grow up and lose the adolescent pimples if you are to learn how to relate
    in an adult manner to members of the opposite sex but you have a long way to go."
    --Finnegan (to Bill718, 19 April 2016, page 1, post 4, "American Rabbi's Comments on Rape" )

    And as for Bill718's absurd claim that I have 'a vendetta against all males (especially older
    white males)', I wonder if I should mention it to an older white man who says he loves me.
    I expect that he would laugh and say that he knows more about me than Bill718 ever will.
  12. 06 May '16 21:59 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by DeepThought to Bill718
    I'd regard a threat of rape as I would a threat of murder, clearly it is not the same as actually carrying out the threat, but nevertheless highly distressing to the threatened. Having said that I'm confident that here the site administrators would remove any such post and ban the poster, at least from the forums. I've never seen any such po ...[text shortened]... it was removed before I saw it. So it's not entirely clear to me what the purpose of the OP is.
    My comments about abuse routinely faced by women on the internet are *not* limited to RHP (where few women participate).
    I would add that women tend to take threats of rape more seriously than men do because
    women are much more vulnerable (consider the statistics) to getting raped in real life.
    That's a reality that the sexist troll Bill718 fails to comprehend or simply does not care about.

    If the authorities take it seriously when someone on the internet threatens to plant a bomb
    in a public place, why should they not also take seriously rape threats on the internet?
    Some women have been stalked and raped by men who started out by making threats.

    I don't recall being explicitly threatened with rape in any public post at RHP.
    A RHP member was banned after he sent inappropriate PMs to me, and I forwarded
    them to the RHP admins, who decided that he had violated the Terms of Service.