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  1. SubscriberSuzianne
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    09 Nov '18 09:46
    https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a24850469/marsha-blackburn-thousand-oaks-shooting-second-amendment/

    13 dead in Thousand Oaks shooting

    This article above covers the Republican response to the shooting in California that left 13 people dead Wednesday night, mostly college students and one Ventura County Sheriff's deputy. And yes, it's lame, and it's grotesque.

    Why can't the Republicans actually talk about the reasons why shootings like this continue?

    Because their campaigns are backed by the NRA.

    How many more shootings will it take before we grow up and away from this gun culture, this culture of fear, that only exists to sell more guns?
  2. SubscriberPonderable
    chemist
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    09 Nov '18 09:56
    @suzianne said
    https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a24850469/marsha-blackburn-thousand-oaks-shooting-second-amendment/

    13 dead in Thousand Oaks shooting

    This article above covers the Republican response to the shooting in California that left 13 people dead Wednesday night, mostly college students and one Ventura County Sheriff's deputy. And yes, it's lame, and it's grotesque.

    ...[text shortened]... we grow up and away from this gun culture, this culture of fear, that only exists to sell more guns?
    I pondered to post a few question about that yesterday when I first heard about the (to be on th point here) mass murder.

    From past experience however one can foretell that a lot of persons in the US are far more concerened about their pet gun (what probably is about them feeling safe) than about safety for everybody...
  3. Subscribermoonbus
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    09 Nov '18 10:14
    @Suzianne

    At the risk being falsely pigeonholed in the wrong camp, I'm going to hazard an opinion. Guns aren't the problem; they are only a symptom. The underlying problem is the motivation and the low-threshold for using them. What America needs is not gun control, but anger management. What America needs is massive training in how to resolve problems without violence; it starts at home and could be re-inforced in the schools and, dare I say it?, the churches.

    Get the level of anger down, teach people to resolve their problems without shooting people, and then it won't much matter how many guns are in circulation. No one is trying to deny people their right to defend themselves when confronted by an armed thug. But the recurring mass shootings in public places is nothing to do with that; it's people who don't have their anger and frustration under control who are committing these atrocities.

    Switzerland has guns in circulation (due to the lack of a standing army, there is a citizen militia), and the Swiss don't shoot each other much. They learn to negotiate settlements. Like grown-ups.

    Yeah, so, like, America, grow up !
  4. Joined
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    09 Nov '18 10:22
    @moonbus said
    @Suzianne

    At the risk being falsely pigeonholed in the wrong camp, I'm going to hazard an opinion. Guns aren't the problem; they are only a symptom. The underlying problem is the motivation and the low-threshold for using them. What America needs is not gun control, but anger management. What America needs is massive training in how to resolve problems without violence; it ...[text shortened]... h. They learn to negotiate settlements. Like grown-ups.

    Yeah, so, like, America, grow up !
    so I guess you will denounce antifa?
  5. SubscriberPonderable
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    09 Nov '18 10:27
    @moonbus

    Good point. However if people can't magae their anger keepting dangerous objects from then sounds like a good idea to me.

    The Swiss don't have the narrative of a "won west" (by using weapons to take) or a "wild west" (where the good guy with the gun comes to the helpless victims...).
  6. SubscriberSuzianne
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    09 Nov '18 10:591 edit
    @mott-the-hoople said
    so I guess you will denounce antifa?
    "antifa" is yet another imaginary fear (like the "caravan of murderers coming for our southern border" ), courtesy of the Fear Merchants (Republicans).

    Again, simply growing up will release you from this fear.
  7. Subscribermoonbus
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    09 Nov '18 11:11
    @suzianne said
    "antifa" is yet another imaginary fear (like the "caravan of murderers coming for our southern border" ), courtesy of the Fear Merchants (Republicans).

    Again, simply growing up will release you from this fear.
    Yes, fear -- especially unacknowledged fear -- is a big part of the cry in America, "You can have my guns when you pry my cold dead fingers off them."

    Fear; and frustration at the American dream gone sour.

    Take this guy Bowers who shot up a synagogue in PA. My guess is that he was probably a basically decent man who loved his children and just wanted to get by in life, get paid a fair wage for a day's work, and live in peace. But something bugged him; some dream of his went unfulfilled, for a long time. He may have felt disempowered and cheated out of something he thought he deserved. And he was evidently afraid -- afraid that someone else was going to get the piece of the pie he thought he deserved. But rather than seek the cause of his misery within himself or his unrealistic expectations, he looked for a scapegoat, someone he could blame for his misery. Once you start looking for a scapegoat, you're bound to find one. It might be college kids having fun in a bar, or gays, or Muslims, or immigrants, or your estranged wife — could be anybody perceived to be happier. For Bowers, it happened to be Jews.

    According to one report I read, Bowers was captive to biased news reporting; he was living in a filter bubble of warped social media chats (Gab.com) bordering on conspiracy-theory lunacy. He was being fed propaganda, for example, that Hispanic migrants were heading for America, that they were violent people, and that Jews were financing an "invasion" of such people. It's looney stuff, and Bowers bought into it because it apparently suited his feeling of disempowerment and disillusionment.

    Here's a link to some background information on Bowers:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/27/us/synagogue-attack-suspect-robert-bowers-profile/

    That's a pretty toxic mental cocktail. Add a gun to it, and blamo! Take the gun away from him, and you just make him madder and more convinced that someone is denying him his rights, and he is still trapped in a toxic mind-set. Get him out of that toxic mind-set, and I don't care how many guns he has.
  8. Joined
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    09 Nov '18 11:19
    @suzianne said
    "antifa" is yet another imaginary fear (like the "caravan of murderers coming for our southern border" ), courtesy of the Fear Merchants (Republicans).

    Again, simply growing up will release you from this fear.
    There is nothing "imaginary" about Antifa violence and terrorism. You demonstrate the problem with liberals...they think they can create their own reality, their politicians know this, and use it. Even to the point of getting a feminist to support a woman abuser..(Ellison)
  9. Standard membershavixmir
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    09 Nov '18 11:32
    @suzianne said
    "antifa" is yet another imaginary fear (like the "caravan of murderers coming for our southern border" ), courtesy of the Fear Merchants (Republicans).

    Again, simply growing up will release you from this fear.
    Growing up doesn’t release you from fears.

    Some fears fade because of rationality, but a great many fears (especially the one’s we’re talking about here) are ingrained.

    Curtly speaking: it’s a form of PTSD.

    Growing up, this fear/ PTSD is handled by various mechanisms (one of which is gun ownership), and like all mechanisms which we use to cope whilst growing up, it serves a purpose and should be replaced when rationality offers better mechanisms.

    Rationality hasn’t removed the fear, the mechanisms stay in place, even though they no longer serve the person.

    Just saying: “Take away the gun.”
    Does this:
    Offer safety?
    Or does this trigger the PTSD and make the patient cling even harder to his/ her mechanisms?

    That’s what’s happening.

    I’ll bill you by Paypal.
  10. Joined
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    09 Nov '18 11:42
    @moonbus said
    @Suzianne

    At the risk being falsely pigeonholed in the wrong camp, I'm going to hazard an opinion. Guns aren't the problem; they are only a symptom. The underlying problem is the motivation and the low-threshold for using them. What America needs is not gun control, but anger management. What America needs is massive training in how to resolve problems without violence; it ...[text shortened]... h. They learn to negotiate settlements. Like grown-ups.

    Yeah, so, like, America, grow up !
    The country seems obsessed by the individual rather than the collective, I think this leads to a selfish way of thinking and being selfish leads to conflict and violence.
  11. Joined
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    09 Nov '18 11:54
    @shavixmir said
    Growing up doesn’t release you from fears.

    Some fears fade because of rationality, but a great many fears (especially the one’s we’re talking about here) are ingrained.

    Curtly speaking: it’s a form of PTSD.

    Growing up, this fear/ PTSD is handled by various mechanisms (one of which is gun ownership), and like all mechanisms which we use to cope whilst growing up, it ...[text shortened]... nt cling even harder to his/ her mechanisms?

    That’s what’s happening.

    I’ll bill you by Paypal.
    some fears increase because of >reality<...been to the hood lately?
  12. Subscribermoonbus
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    09 Nov '18 18:20
    @shavixmir said
    Growing up doesn’t release you from fears.

    Some fears fade because of rationality, but a great many fears (especially the one’s we’re talking about here) are ingrained.

    Curtly speaking: it’s a form of PTSD.

    Growing up, this fear/ PTSD is handled by various mechanisms (one of which is gun ownership), and like all mechanisms which we use to cope whilst growing up, it ...[text shortened]... nt cling even harder to his/ her mechanisms?

    That’s what’s happening.

    I’ll bill you by Paypal.
    Growing into an adult level of maturity does not release one from feeling fear, but it releases one from the tyranny of fear. One still feels it, but acts according to rational and civically responsible principles, instead of fight-or-flight.

    So, teach people better coping mechanisms than gun ownership for dealing with fear. An external object is a poor substitute-solution for what is essentially an inner problem. Rather like substituting a dildo for real nookies.
  13. SubscriberVery Rusty
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    09 Nov '18 19:171 edit
    @moonbus
    So people have guns out of fear?

    -VR
  14. Joined
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    09 Nov '18 20:00
    @suzianne said
    https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a24850469/marsha-blackburn-thousand-oaks-shooting-second-amendment/

    13 dead in Thousand Oaks shooting

    This article above covers the Republican response to the shooting in California that left 13 people dead Wednesday night, mostly college students and one Ventura County Sheriff's deputy. And yes, it's lame, and it's grotesque.

    ...[text shortened]... we grow up and away from this gun culture, this culture of fear, that only exists to sell more guns?
    What was the cause? So here we have a US veteran down on his luck and spit out of the government run health care VA as OK after they evaluated his mental health.

    I say it's Trump's fault..
  15. Joined
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    09 Nov '18 20:011 edit
    @Very-Rusty

    I started another thread on banning guns.

    Only one person said they agreed with a total ban on guns.

    In this instance, he had the weapon legally, and it was a simple hand gun.

    Should democrats run on a total gun ban?
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