Timebank is NOT the answer!!!

Originally posted by jpseve
As anyone who is watching would know, a player has risen to the top of the rankings BY TIMING OUT LOST or DRAWN GAMES. The fact that this is within the rules is absurd and should lead to the conclusion that the rules are flawed!

I don't quite see your point. If you agree to the game, and the timeout settings, then you should accept that the other player is free to time you out if you do not move, just as you are free to time them out.

I don't see how they can "prolong" the game outside of the agreed specifications, you will always get the option to time out the other player if the game drags outside the agreed period, and, if you do not get this option, then it is fair to say that your opponent is still moving.

If your problem is that they do not move quickly enough, then you should accept shorter timeframe games.

If your problem is that they put the vacation flag on, then you should give fair warning (eg in your profile) that you will time out games with the flag on if you consider the opponent is being unreasonable.

Perhaps a system similar to what they have on gameknot, and what Perhaps it is a point of pride? we pride ourselves in having a different system? let us ask all the users? let us take a poll? let us do away with the timebank and implement a system where sketchy play is NOT rewarded!!!
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t/o's and timebank may go back where they came from, in my opinion.
The point is that someone comes on first place by gaining points through t/o.
So I propose that only decided games count (resign or mate) none else.
There's too much talk about t/o, play chess!🙂
I hate to see strong players leave this site out of frustration.

Originally posted by Joop506
So I propose that only decided games count (resign or mate) none else.
There's too much talk about t/o, play chess!🙂
I hate to see strong players leave this site out of frustration.

If games can only be decided through resign or mate (or draw, presumably) then all of us will be left with a pile of unfinished games as people abandon games that they're losing.

I can understand that people hate being timed out of games, but there are people who play slowly, people who abandon games, and people who simply aren't very considerate... and we need a way to address that.

Strong player or not, everyone has to respect that we're all here to play a game we love, and making someone wait 2 weeks for every turn is just as rude as timing someone out of a game.

If someone can come up with a way to prevent any form of abuse of the rules, I'd love to hear it, but for now I think the t/o and timebank are practical.

For people who lose often through timeouts, either pay attention or don't play... but don't abandon games for a month and then whine that people aren't considerate because I've got news for you... neither are you.

Originally posted by Decanter
[b]If games can only be decided through resign or mate (or draw, presumably) then all of us will be left with a pile of unfinished games as people abandon games that they're losing.

okay I forgot about that, so let's have a standard t/o by RHP, just like in tournament games, 2 days t/o. That's clear.
I propose max 7 days tb, standard t/o 2 days.
Abandon lost positions is sad, waiting for your opponents vacation setting to t/o him/her is beyond that.
Players who t/o in vacation setting don't deserve points.

& I agree with you that we play a game we love & that I hate regulations, it should all be within the love for the game and no fuss. Just natural good sports behaviour.

Originally posted by Joop506
okay I forgot about that, so let's have a standard t/o by RHP, just like in tournament games, 2 days t/o. That's clear.
...

why add 2 days? If you think its ok to auto-timeout (I think it would help avoid avoid much of the onsite flaming of late), then do so when the timebank empties. Not 2 days later. All that means is that the timebank = set timebank + 2. If you want that, then just use a longer timebank, not by a non-intuitive +2

Originally posted by Exy
Absolutely not! If someone puts a vacation flag on in one of my games I monitor them, if I see they are continuing to move then I time them out. If the vacation flag stays on for over a month I time them out.

I would never agree to play a game with a time bank greater than 14 days. Once the time bank has gone and you've allowed a reasonable amount of ti ...[text shortened]... ven more lax and allows this type of player to prolong lost games even further, in my opinion.

I think you have hit on a solution. Maybe if the site could alert you to the fact a player has moved since their flag was raised then people could then timeout these players as they are obviously not using it in good faith.

Originally posted by marinakatomb
I think you have hit on a solution. Maybe if the site could alert you to the fact a player has moved since their flag was raised then people could then timeout these players as they are obviously not using it in good faith.

Thank you. But I actually think this is the ultimate solution to all these squabbles over time outs and vacation flag abuse.

Make the "Vacation Flag" halt all games - that is whilst the flag is up nobody can time out against you.

However, limit the number of times you can put up your "Vacation Flag" to once a month. This would discourage people from casually putting it up once they've exhausted their time banks.

I have to disagree: a 'halt game' feature would also need max limit for the halted time, which really just makes it a limited timebank in all but name. If vacation halts were indefinite the problems are obvious: unfinished games, tourney, clan and seige nightmares and so on. Why make the timing system more complicated? Just use your timebank properly and auto timeout.

The timeout also allows for slight, but not overly long, mini-jaunts: for example a 3 day game can be quite tight over the weekend, of which there are four per month. But the odd dip into your timebank just after the weekend allows a game to continue without undue complication or oppertunity for oppertunistic timeout behaviour on your opponent's part.

Originally posted by Exy
Thank you. But I actually think this is the ultimate solution to all these squabbles over time outs and vacation flag abuse.

Make the "Vacation Flag" halt all games - that is whilst the flag is up nobody can time out against you.

Howe ...[text shortened]... m casually putting it up once they've exhausted their time banks.

this would be a disaster

i could just start 300 short timeout games - then go for a two year holiday, when i returned i would be able to time out many players very quickly.

our present system is very good.
(skeeter timed out some old pretimebank games, and will find it much harder to do that with timebank games)

If you're only allowed to use your "vacation flag" once per month then people will not put it on and leave it on for a long time unless they are genuinely on vacation. The "halt" feature would stopped all play, the player would not be able to move at all when their vacation flag is on.

This would stop the Skeeter / Living Legend problem and the people who carrying on playing with their vacation flag still on. I can't think of a better, more complete, solution to this real problem.

Originally posted by flexmore
[b]this would be a disaster

i could just start 300 short timeout games - then go for a two year holiday, when i returned i would be able to time out many players very quickly.

No you wouldn't because if you put your vacation flag on for the two years you were absent you couldn't play a single move and the timebank would be frozen at the point you put the flag on.

Originally posted by Exy
No you wouldn't because if you put your vacation flag on for the two years you were absent you couldn't play a single move and the timebank would be frozen at the point you put the flag on.

and for touneys? Clan games? Seiges? I guess you'll say these are "exceptions". Alas these are very significant parts of the RHP system, so 'exception' is not a satisfactory answer. And any system where you need exceptions right from the start is a poor system. No: this argument has been threshed out before and that is when timebanks were added. They were chosen because they are the best solution to the problem. Under the timebank system, if you get timed out, it is entirely your fault, just like OTB. A halt game feature would be a disaster.

I ultimately agree that if you time out and have used your time bank it's your own fault. This is only a grey area because of the "vacation flag", this unfortunately is abused and used as a last ditched attempt to stall for time. Perhaps it should just be done away with altogether?

Originally posted by Exy
I ultimately agree that if you time out and have used your time bank it's your own fault. This is only a grey area because of the "vacation flag", this unfortunately is abused and used as a last ditched attempt to stall for time. Perhaps it should just be done away with altogether?

there is a use for vacation flags in indicating you may be unusually slow in moving: but as pointed out in previous threads, you can occationally get to the odd internet cafe while on holiday: there should be no punishment for trying to keep with your games when posssible, but we should accept that on a holiday, maybe we can't play a move for every game each time a net cafe is available. With an auto-timeout however, it doesn't matter technically if the flag is up or down: you still loose. But that is of minor significance in my books: if I know that my opponent stopped playing because trhey were off having fun in the sun, then I would have no problem playing them again: let them have a bash at getting the points back. However, if my opponent simply can't be bothered playing out loosing games, that is a very differeent type of player: one whom I don't want to waste time playing again. So in a community sense, the vacation flag is still a very valuble feature. And may help explain a sudden silence in the forums to boot!

edit: there's a huge number of grammer errors above, but I've had too many drinks to correct them: sorry all! See the 'drinks and rhp forum' for a background in this sorry state of affairs!