Kamsky - Short: FLAME WAR.

At the end of yesterday's game there was a flame war on the playchess server between Nigel Short and Gata Kamsky.

In case you missed it, here are the editted highlights. Gata logged in, said hi, got asked his opinion on the current dispute by someone or other, and here's how it went. Enjoy . . .

Gata Kamsky : ok i'm not taking sides in this match

Susan Polgar : Be careful Gata, people attack me too for not taking sides 🙂

Gata Kamsky : people will always attack you, whethere there is a reason or not

Yasser Seirawan : Yeah! I hate those fence sitters. Smile

Nigel Short : Gata, in our 1994 match you delivered a written protest to
the arbiter accusing me of visiting the bathroom too often. Was that doneto disturb me, or because you thought I had a desktop hidden in the cubicle?

Robot 1 : this should be interesting

MieDEma : nice offence Nigel

Gata Kamsky : ask me something i can remember nigel

Robot 1 : decent defense too

Nigel Short : I remember it well, Gata.

MieDEma : one does not remember lost battles

Gata Kamsky : all i remember is that you started talking to me during the game

Robot 1 : counter attack

Nigel Short : Yes, and the arbiter had overheard a conversation between your father and yourself immediately after the game. He told you to complain. You said that there was nothing to complain about. And yet within the hour there was yet another written protest about me cheating during this match.

Nigel Short : I guess Daddy had his way

Gata Kamsky : i would be careful with making assumptions

Gata Kamsky : back then i didn't understood your dirty psychological
tricks nigel

Nigel Short : I was also accused of "looking at Anand too much"

Nigel Short : and what a pity that the match organisers failed to erect a
wall on the stage , like you insisted that they must

Semi : Kamsky-Short "encounter" shows why nothing came out of the PCA

Gata Kamsky : nigel you had your chance against garry no?

Gata Kamsky : so stop complaining

Jrt : They should settle this in a blitz ..3+1 match....

Nigel Short : I do remember the death threat from your father, delivered in an extremely irate manner about 2cm from my face.

Nigel Short : you won that match by dirty tricks, Gata. And you know it.

Gata Kamsky : so talk to my father about it

Super_GM : insist on replay of the match

Gata Kamsky : lol

Gata Kamsky : looks like a draw to me [on the game in progress]

Nigel Short ): "Talk to my father"? Why not "talk to anailov"? we can all
benefit from hiding behind our henchmen

Gata Kamsky : nice try nigel

Gata Kamsky : trying to do others all work for you?

[Around this this point Susan Polgar tried to placate the pair, saying it
is irrelevant now anyhow.]

Nigel Short : they have relevance, Susan. It is the only time in my career I have accused of cheating. I was accused repeatedly. There are obvious similarities with the current match.

Nigel Short : the only thing that Danailov has not done is to physically
threaten Kramnik with death

Gata Kamsky : i have no idea what you're trying to drag me and my dad back into nigel

Nigel Short : No doubt you would prefer to remember the result, rather
than the manner in which it was attained, Gata.

Gata Kamsky : you mean your little dirty tricks ?

Gata Kamsky : we can go all day, you have your opinion and i have mine. So let's leave it at that

Nigel Short : It is funny, how you are the only person to have observed
that I am a cheat, Gata. Indeed the protests and accusations went on even when you were 3-0 up. I must have been the most inept cheat in history.

Gata Kamsky : nigel

Gata Kamsky : i don't want to talk about it, but if you want to do
something about this, we can settle this like real men, outside. I'll be
waiting

Jon Levitt : a duel?

MieDEma : with swords?

Nigel Short : Yes. That is exactly how your Dad wanted to settle it too.

Gata Kamsky : it is YOUR problem

Gata Kamsky : but your insinuations are insulting me

Gata Kamsky : so put up or shut up

WOW! Presumably Gata's offer to take it outside was an attempt to diffuse the situation with a lame joke (as Nigel would be in Athens, Gata NY) and also implied they should talk about it in private, rather than in front of 9,000 or so chess fans? There was no exchange between them after that that I saw.

I don't like Nigel Short and never have. However he really should have been protected from Kamsky's father during that match.

Originally posted by Fat Lady
I don't like Nigel Short and never have. However he really should have been protected from Kamsky's father during that match.

Quite.

Nigel Short has a strong sense of justice (particularly, injustice to him) and has a right to talk to Kamsky about his historical grievances. But not via such a public ambush.

Probably Kamsky should have been protected from his father too. There were rumours he beat him - but rumours aside, his father clearly bullied everyone outrageously, including his prodigious son.

By most reports, Kamsky is a peaceable, decent and pleasant guy now. No-one has ever said that about Short!

Originally posted by TommyC
Quite.

Nigel Short has a strong sense of justice (particularly, injustice to him) and has a right to talk to Kamsky about his historical grievances. But not via such a public ambush.

Probably Kamsky should have been protected from his father too. There were rumours he beat him - but rumours aside, his father clearly bullied everyone outrageously, includ ...[text shortened]... orts, Kamsky is a peaceable, decent and pleasant guy now. No-one has ever said that about Short!

Was the Kamsky-Short match in the leadup to the world championship against Kas that we all know Short fell, er, short?

Originally posted by sonhouse
Was the Kamsky-Short match in the leadup to the world championship against Kas that we all know Short fell, er, short?

No, it was the one after, when Kasparov Anand in 95 (I think.) The Short-Kamsky match was a qualifier, in 1994.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Was the Kamsky-Short match in the leadup to the world championship against Kas that we all know Short fell, er, short?

Who wouldn't fall short? The Great Kaspy? I have no doubt that if Kramnik would have played the young Kaspy, he would have went down in flames in their match. I want someone to show me throughout all of history a greater player than Garry Kasparov? There isn't one and perhaps there shall never be.

Originally posted by powershaker
Who wouldn't fall short? The Great Kaspy? I have no doubt that if Kramnik would have played the young Kaspy, he would have went down in flames in their match. I want someone to show me throughout all of history a greater player than Garry Kasparov? There isn't one and perhaps there shall never be.

yes kaspy is a much greater champion than krammy, i agree, i only wish fischer would have played longer....but you cant argue with 2851!!!

I bet it was alot more of Kamsky's Dad's fault and a lot less of Kamsky. I think Kamsky played in a lot of tournies around my area way back when, and I am always hearing stories from some of my friends who played back then about how Kamsky's dad was a complete jerk. I recall a story about Kamsky's dad actually punching some else in the face. Real a-hole from what I hear.

Originally posted by TommyC
At the end of yesterday's game there was a flame war on the playchess server between Nigel Short and Gata Kamsky.

In case you missed it, here are the editted highlights. Gata logged in, said hi, got asked his opinion on the current dispute by someone or other, and here's how it went. Enjoy . . .

Gata Kamsky : ok i'm not taking sides in this match

Sus ...[text shortened]... 000 or so chess fans? There was no exchange between them after that that I saw.

That sucks. I missed the whole thing while I was in school!

Never a dull moment at Playchess.com ........ 😉

Originally posted by powershaker
Who wouldn't fall short? The Great Kaspy? I have no doubt that if Kramnik would have played the young Kaspy, he would have went down in flames in their match. I want someone to show me throughout all of history a greater player than Garry Kasparov? There isn't one and perhaps there shall never be.

There are some six top players of all time. These players are the top and those that are within 25 performance rateing point of Kasparov. Any one of those five other players have the performance rateing to play with and to maybe even beat Kasparov in a match? Based on the player's best year the top players are Fischer, Kasparov, Botvinnik, Capablanca, Lasker, and Alekhine. For the rateing of these players I used chessmetrics.

Originally posted by !~TONY~!
I bet it was alot more of Kamsky's Dad's fault and a lot less of Kamsky. I think Kamsky played in a lot of tournies around my area way back when, and I am always hearing stories from some of my friends who played back then about how Kamsky's dad was a complete jerk. I recall a story about Kamsky's dad actually punching some else in the face. Real a-hole from what I hear.

No doubt. Children of such parents typically either mirror them and become thugs, or polarise and become pacifists. I think Kamsky was still under his father's thumb back then, but now he's fortunately become a completely different character. I agree with Short on a lot of things; but acerbic, brittle and relentless in style he can be. Not good.

Btw, isn't it odd 'pacifist' has the word 'fist' in it?

Originally posted by powershaker
Who wouldn't fall short? The Great Kaspy? I have no doubt that if Kramnik would have played the young Kaspy, he would have went down in flames in their match. I want someone to show me throughout all of history a greater player than Garry Kasparov? There isn't one and perhaps there shall never be.

The thing is, Kramnik was able to beat Kasparov in his two main black weapons v 1.d4; the KID and the Grunfeld. And he was able to neutralise 1. e4 with the Berlin Wall, all but once after and including their match. I don't think Kramnik's victory against Kasparov was some kind of historical anomaly. Kramnik overcame Kasparov.

In terms of greatness - Kramnik doesn't have Kasparov's stamina, effort, opening preparation, perfect background. He will not reach Kasparov's heights very often - and certainly not with anything like the twenty or so year consistency with which Kasparov was at the very top of the world with no dispute. Put it another way, Kramnik's style is perfect for not losing, but not one that wins category 19 tournaments again and again. But, if you value the match format as a way to find the truth out of players at the top level - then you really shouldn't dismiss or underestimate Kramnik.

Btw, I have a hunch Topalov will win this match. If not tomorrow then in the rapid play deciders.

Originally posted by alexstclaire
yes kaspy is a much greater champion than krammy, i agree, i only wish fischer would have played longer....but you cant argue with 2851!!!

I think we need FIDE to call up Kasparov and give him back the World CHess Championship title. Kramnik and Topalov neither one show the beauty and the character of the Great Kasparov. Plus, at least Kasparov was personable, funny and cool as a person. And, he's a winner, and his will to win still is the equivalent of Fischer's. Fischer fan. Kasparov fan. Kaspy earned his right to be mentioned in the same sentences as Bobby Fischer. I'll always believe that.

Originally posted by TommyC
The thing is, Kramnik was able to beat Kasparov in his two main black weapons v 1.d4; the KID and the Grunfeld. And he was able to neutralise 1. e4 with the Berlin Wall, all but once after and including their match. I don't think Kramnik's victory against Kasparov was some kind of historical anomaly. Kramnik overcame Kasparov.

In terms of greatness - Kramn ...[text shortened]... ave a hunch Topalov will win this match. If not tomorrow then in the rapid play deciders.

Let's just not forget, ole Tom Tom, that Kasparov was much older when he played Kramnik. And, it would seem obvious that Kasparov had ruled the chess world for many years before that match. What did Kasparov care? He already had shattered the chess records of the world by then - most anyway. Come now, the young Kaspy was almost nearly invincible. Age takes a toll on chess. It's a scientific truth. Look at Kramnik's age when he played the match with Kasparov. And, look at Kasparov's age at that time, also. Kaspy had nothing left to prove anyway. 🙂