Beating the Grunfeld and KID

I've been practicing 1.d4 for a little while now, and I like it a lot. Play the Queen's Gambit supplied me with an excellent repertoire against 1...d5, but facing 1...Nf6 causes me more of a dilemma.

I'm really unsure of what to play against the KID and Grunfeld. I want something that's not a theoretical monster, but still completely (And I mean completely) playable. I have no problem with gambits, as long as they're sound. Right now I've been playing the mainline 7.Bc4 against the Grunfeld and the Bayonet against the KID. They both seem like fine choices, but the lines can get bookish - and I don't have a book on them. 😕 In blitz earlier though, I did play this accidental gambit against the Grunfeld which may have some hope:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 c5 8.Rb1!? cxd4 9.cxd4 Qxd4 10.Qxd4 Bxd4 11.Nf3 Bg7 12.O-O O-O (= -.10 Fritz 9)

In the actual game I played the rather crazy 9.Qb3 after which white doesn't seem too bad actually. I.e.: 9...O-O 10.cxd4 Qxd4 11.Bd5 Be6 12.Nf3 Bxd5 13.exd5 Qe4+ 14.Be3 (=+ -.38 Fritz 9)

These lines seem to look playable, and would definitely have my opponent out of book, or am I just wasting my time on an inferior line when I should just be playing the typical 8.Ne2?

As for the KID, I think the Bayonet Attack is what I want - but I need some sort of book or DB to get some information on the lines for both the KID and Grunfeld, can anybody recommend something? Or does anybody have recommendations for other lines I could use against the KID or Grunfeld - particularly something active?

Against KID I`m playing Petrosian system (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be2 e5 7.d5 with Bg5 to follow).

Against Grunfeld I`m playing Nf3 and e3 with Be2 and h3.

Originally posted by Korch
Against KID I`m playing Petrosian system (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be2 e5 7.d5 with Bg5 to follow).

Against Grunfeld I`m playing Nf3 and e3 with Be2 and h3.

Hm, what do you think of the Samisch against the KID?

I know nothing about these openings but go here: http://www.chesspublishing.com
At the left click on king's indian,then at the right you see a link to a forum devoted to the KID.In particular I saw a thread titled 'understanding the white side of the KID'
Surely there must be some good info for you 🙂

Originally posted by cmsMaster
Hm, what do you think of the Samisch against the KID?

Samisch is easy to deal with..in fact it's the only line I know how to play as black. Since you play the Pirc (sometimes 3.f3 happens..), you should know Samisch isn't the most dangerous weapon for white. Check out some of Kasparovs games for some cool ideas to deal with whites set-up

Originally posted by cmsMaster
Hm, what do you think of the Samisch against the KID?

Easy to learn but its not the most dangerous system for black.

Originally posted by cmsMaster
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.cxd5 Nxd5 5.e4 Nxc3 6.bxc3 Bg7 7.Bc4 c5 8.Rb1!? cxd4 9.cxd4 Qxd4 10.Qxd4 Bxd4 11.Nf3 Bg7 12.O-O O-O (= -.10 Fritz 9)

I was wondering, instead of 7. ... c5, doesn't Black normally castles instead?

Originally posted by Korch
Easy to learn but its not the most dangerous system for black.

In that case, what is the most dangerous system for Black?

Originally posted by badivan1
In that case, what is the most dangerous system for Black?

In my opinion Classic system (1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be2) makes more problem for black. Fiancetto system(1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.g3) are dangerous too.

I'll play KID against you if you want to practice.

I have to say, I played the 4-pawns against the KID, and absolutely rip people apart. Unfortunately, if you don't wanna study it a little bit, it would be a poor choice, since alot of times white has to play sacrifices and find some deep ideas that have already been worked out, and that you or I wouldn't find over the board. Extremely dangerous though. The positions are very open, alot of times White has alot of active piece play and a huge development advantage for some material. For instance, here is the one of the main lines:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f4 O-O 6. Nf3 c5 7. d5 e6 8. Be2 exd5 9. cxd5 Re8 10. e5! dxe5 11. fxe5 Ng4 12. Bg5 Qb6 13. O-O Nxe5 14. Nxe5 Bxe5 15. Bc4 Qxb2 16. d6! Rf8 17. Bxf7+! Kg7 18. Bd5! Qxc3 19. Rxf8 Kxf8 20. Qf1+ Bf5 21. Rd1!

Whites twin threats of Bxb7 and g4 are both unavoidable, and it's still very complicated! 😀

Against the Gruenfeld, I love this line:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 c5 8. Ne2 O-O 9. Be3 Nc6 10. Rc1!? cxd4 11. cxd4 Qa5+ 12.Kf1!?

Whites idea is that he is going to simply play h4 and h5, and he still wants his rook on the h-file. White also has this idea of playing f3, then Bd2 and Qe1-h4. Very interesting line, very dangerous for black. Theoretically he is fine, but no one ever plays the right moves! 🙂

I have the hardest time with the Samish. That's what it's called right? The f3 line.

Originally posted by badivan1
I was wondering, instead of 7. ... c5, doesn't Black normally castles instead?

No, 7...c5 is more popular but O-O is still popular.

Originally posted by !~TONY~!
I have to say, I played the 4-pawns against the KID, and absolutely rip people apart. Unfortunately, if you don't wanna study it a little bit, it would be a poor choice, since alot of times white has to play sacrifices and find some deep ideas that have already been worked out, and that you or I wouldn't find over the board. Extremely dangerous though. The ...[text shortened]... very dangerous for black. Theoretically he is fine, but no one ever plays the right moves! 🙂

Interesting lines. The problem with the 4 Pawns is that you'll say I'll have to study a lot. And I'm feeling pretty lazy right now - I just don't have time to do that. You know what it's like applying to schools, working, and completing your senior year of high school.

This grunfeld line looks nice though. It looks very much like there are few places for black to deviate, right?

You are just too responsible. 😀

There are only a couple of places. Obviously after Kf1 there are alot of moves. And of course he has some options instead of cd or Qa5, but when does Black not have options?