It is easy to construct a game study where the side having the first move can force a win, no matter whether it is white to move or black to move. For example, white king on c3, white pawn on a7, black king on c6, black pawn on a2. Whoever has the first move can force an eventual win. Can anyone construct a game study where the side having the second move can force a win, no matter what the first move is? If it can't be done, can anyone prove it can't be done?
Originally posted by Mephisto2I am thinking "In this position, you can win as white if black moves first, and you can win as black if white moves first." In other words, in the set-up position, both sides are in fatal zugzwang, but whoever has to move first, has no choice but to make a fatal move (not necessarily a mate in 1) and removes the other side from zugswang.
Not sure what you're after. Consider this 'extreme' position. White wins in one no matter who is on the move.
[fen]rr4k1/nnb2p1p/ppp2QpB/4p3/2b5/8/5PPP/1q2NRK1 b - - 0 1[/fen]
Originally posted by JS357
I am thinking "In this position, you can win as white if black moves first, and you can win as black if white moves first." In other words, in the set-up position, both sides are in fatal zugzwang, but whoever has to move first, has no choice but to make a fatal move (not necessarily a mate in 1) and removes the other side from zugswang.
Whoever has the move loses.
Originally posted by SmittyTimeNote the position after move 61. Also note that the game was won (and this position was predictable) several moves earlier. Game 3972148
Anyone have any good examples of real life games where it came down to "you move, you lose"?
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if you check back to the puzzle and the comments at the bottom, SwissGambit (presumably the same SwissGambit as User 355642) has solved it. Great spot. Don't think I'd ever have got that.