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  1. 08 Mar '10 20:25 / 2 edits
    Hey guys, so before I go any further I want to give a little background on the game. EirikK came to me and asked for help with his chess and wanted to play through a game and then pose it to the forum for analysis afterwards. before going any further, I request that noone comment on this game at the moment. Rather, look over it, develop your own thoughts, and present them to the forum when it's over. I post it now because IMHO from the current position the win is forced for white, and since I'm a non-sub I'm only allowed 3 threads a day, an wanted to make it now since i wont be on the computer much the rest of the day. So please look over the game now, develop your own thoughts, and i'll bump this thread as soon as the games over. Again, DO NOT COMMENT ON THIS GAME UNTIL I BUMP THIS THREAD AT THE GAME'S CONCLUSION

    Game 7144769
  2. 25 Mar '10 17:22
    bump!
    Ok this game finished, so let's get those comments rolling!
  3. Standard member Traveling Again
    I'm 1/4 Ninja
    25 Mar '10 17:48
  4. 25 Mar '10 18:37
    19. Bf6+ and he loses the queen already. You created a nice attack but be sure to calculate everything and make the most of that attack!
  5. 25 Mar '10 18:41
    Originally posted by Gatusso
    19. Bf6+ and he loses the queen already. You created a nice attack but be sure to calculate everything and make the most of that attack!
    My way is better:
    it forces the queen exchange the exact same was as it would have occurred if Bf6 came on move 19. by doing it my way, bringing the queen to g4, I still force the pickup of the queen, but i also force picking up his dark-squared bishop, which I would have lost by doing it your way.
  6. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    25 Mar '10 19:31 / 1 edit
    Comments:

    I like 8...d6 - kick the N back from whence it came. White's 8th move seems premature.
    9...Qh5? - the Q should not move twice just to offer a trade for a piece that has not moved at all.
    11.g4 - Black's time wasting with the Queen helped white go on the attack first.
    15...Nh5? - no, black had to try ...Rf7. When you defend something with a piece, be wary of moves that attack the defender.
    16....Qf7?? - oops, Nh5 has been left hanging. ...Nf6 was the only chance. The game is just lost after this. No further comment needed.
  7. 25 Mar '10 21:04
    When he played 16...Qf7 I think he missed the backward d3 Knight move
    covering f2. (backward Knight moves easily missed).

    Yeah Bh6+ and Qg4 is a quicker way - you sat on your hands when you
    saw a good move and found a better one.
  8. 25 Mar '10 23:38
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Comments:

    I like 8...d6 - kick the N back from whence it came. White's 8th move seems premature.
    9...Qh5? - the Q should not move twice just to offer a trade for a piece that has not moved at all.
    11.g4 - Black's time wasting with the Queen helped white go on the attack first.
    15...Nh5? - no, black had to try ...Rf7. When you defend something with ...[text shortened]... ging. ...Nf6 was the only chance. The game is just lost after this. No further comment needed.
    I played 8. Ne5 with the idea that black can't take g2 after Rg1 and then Bh6 causes a lot of problems for black.
    If 8. ... d6 had come immediately, I was happy to retreat the knight to f3 after happily weakening e6 (trading a tempo for a weakness to potentially probe in black's pawn structure. Qe8 wasn't a bad move at all, as it got the queen to a better square, but then black played Qh5 way too early and let white recover a lot of valuable time chasing her back to e8.
  9. 26 Mar '10 12:52 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by Big Orange Country
    My way is better:
    it forces the queen exchange the exact same was as it would have occurred if Bf6 came on move 19. by doing it my way, bringing the queen to g4, I still force the pickup of the queen, but i also force picking up his dark-squared bishop, which I would have lost by doing it your way.
    Hmm, your move is indeed fine but you can just pick up his dark squared bishop with yours after he takes your rook, cant you? After that your light squared bishop is hanging but you threaten to take another exchange.

    EDIT: I was curious so put the position in an engine (Rybka 3) and Bh6+ and Bf6+ basically come down to the same thing, only Bh6+ leaves the option of Bg5 open, which slows down the inevitable mate. So actually Bf6+ is faster, Rybka claims a mate in 13.

    Does not take away from the fact that you played a great game, I would kill for such a tasty attack!
  10. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    26 Mar '10 16:46
    Originally posted by Big Orange Country
    I played 8. Ne5 with the idea that black can't take g2 after Rg1 and then Bh6 causes a lot of problems for black.
    If 8. ... d6 had come immediately, I was happy to retreat the knight to f3 after happily weakening e6 (trading a tempo for a weakness to potentially probe in black's pawn structure. Qe8 wasn't a bad move at all, as it got the queen to ...[text shortened]... played Qh5 way too early and let white recover a lot of valuable time chasing her back to e8.
    I'm not so sure e6 would be weak. For one, black can play ...h6 and ...Qd7 if need be, and what do you have to hit it with other than a B on c4? Even if you did play Bc4, and Black didn't have the defensive numbers he needed, he could just play ...d5, followed by Nbd7 to trade off any piece that goes to e5.
  11. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    26 Mar '10 19:34
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    I'm not so sure e6 would be weak. For one, black can play ...h6 and ...Qd7 if need be, and what do you have to hit it with other than a B on c4? Even if you did play Bc4, and Black didn't have the defensive numbers he needed, he could just play ...d5, followed by Nbd7 to trade off any piece that goes to e5.
    I was going to say the same thing about e6. I have played the Classical Dutch as Black, and ...d6 is a normal move, and brings black one move closer to getting ...e5 in. I'm inclined to think that provoking ...d6 with a knight move is expending a white tempo to get black to play something he was probably planning to play anyway.

    There are certainly times where a white Ne5 is a good move-for example, when it physically blocks black from getting in ...e5- but it is not clear to me that this is one of those positions.

    I have also seen SG's ...d5 strategy in master games, and that is also an effective way to play the position. Simon Williams has a great book on the Classical Dutch that talks about this, and Neil McDonald's Starting Out: The Dutch is also a great resource on this.

    Paul
  12. 26 Mar '10 20:30
    Black's entire development has been focused on e4, but with fxg4, Bc8, and Nh5 he systematically abandons this square. 12... Ne4 and I think despite the wasted Queen moves I think he is ok and white's kingside attack may be somewhat premature.
  13. 27 Mar '10 08:58
    Black's play was dire, not worth analysing.
  14. Standard member chessicle
    The Chessicle
    27 Mar '10 11:39
    Originally posted by demonseed
    Black's play was dire, not worth analysing.
    On the contrary, if black is going to improve, that is exactly what he needs to do, and has sensibly (and bravely) sought help in so doing. Your comment is not constructive.

    I'd be happy to play some training games with EirikK, if he wishes - send over a challenge!
  15. 27 Mar '10 16:06
    Originally posted by chessicle
    On the contrary, if black is going to improve, that is exactly what he needs to do, and has sensibly (and bravely) sought help in so doing. Your comment is not constructive.

    I'd be happy to play some training games with EirikK, if he wishes - send over a challenge!
    Apologies I didn't read the initial post and only saw that white had posted this game.