A great game.

Just came across this gem. I'm sure some of y'all have seen it and maybe even posted it before. Still, move 47 is quite nice.

Apparently Shirov had to have this idea beat into him beforehand.
Move 44.

I guess that's what makes a great player - he remembers when he loses to a brilliant move and stores it away to use himself a later date rather than getting drunk after the game in an attempt to blot out the memory!

You always take something benificial away from a loss.
Good players do, weaker players shrug as though it was not a problem.

Also backs up my own theory about you won't see an idea OTB
unless you have seen a it, or similiar idea before.

Shirov learned from his loss, Topolov has yet to put this idea into
practise and it all came from Ulf Andersson.

An excellent post Resigningsoon, well researched.

Now off you go and find out where Ulf Andersson got the idea from,
we will possibly trace this one back to the 1800's.

I'm often asked,
if my claim about seeing an idea before is really valid, who saw
the first one?

I reply "Greco" he was the first to put a lot of the opening traps
and combinations into print. He made them up by playing games
of chess against himself. 77 games containg the seed of most the
combinations that are now second nature to most players.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gioachino_Greco

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Also backs up my own theory about you won't see an idea OTB
unless you have seen a it, or similiar idea before.

Depends what you mean by "won't see". If you mean "recognise" then fair enough. But I guess and hope that you're not implying that players can't come up with new ideas of their own.

Actually, right on Greco's wiki page is the following composition:




Black to move and draw.

This is sort of similar to the above positions. At least superficially.

Notable differences: This is same-colored bishops, while the above aren't. The above sacrifices are centered around gaining crucial tempi, while this one is to blockade on the h-file.

Still, bishop and pawn endgames involving bishop sacrifices is a neat motif.

And I'm trying to find who Andersson learned it from.

I'm betting Andersson got his inspiration from this game:

Over halfway through his lost games on the chessgames database and this is the only opposite-colored bishop one I've found so far.



Edit: If it wasn't OTB inspiration this was definitely where Andersson got his idea. 237 lost games in the database. 3 opposite-colored bishops. 1 with a bishop sacrifice.

Originally posted by ResigningSoon
I'm betting Andersson got his inspiration from this game:

Over halfway through his lost games on the chessgames database and this is the only opposite-colored bishop one I've found so far.

Wow, what a coincidence! Who'd have thought it was GreenPawn's own son who played the trick on Andersson, who played the trick on Shirov, who played the trick on Topov?

That's my boy! of course he got it from me.

Why do you think I was showing such an interest in this thread.

Originally posted by ResigningSoon
Just came across this gem. I'm sure some of y'all have seen it and maybe even posted it before. Still, move 47 is quite nice.


[pgn][Event "It (cat.21)"] [Site "Linares (Spain)"] [Date "1998.??.??"] [EventDate "?"] [Round "10"] [Result "0-1"] [White "Veselin Topalov"] [Black "Alexey Shirov"] [ECO "D85"] [WhiteElo "?"] [BlackElo "?"] [PlyCount "10 3 Kf5 49.Kf2 Ke4 50.Bxf6 d4 51.Be7 Kd3 52.Bc5 Kc4 53.Be7 Kb3 0-1[/pgn]

I think this move is a good candidate for being the greatest move ever played. what is also great about this move other than being completely crazy on the first sight is that none of the engines can find it in a reasonable time. it demands a fully human understanding of the position. (they can understand it's the best move though, but only after you feed the variation into them.)

Originally posted by Varenka
Depends what you mean by "won't see". If you mean "recognise" then fair enough. But I guess and hope that you're not implying that players can't come up with new ideas of their own.

Hi Varenka

First of all must say what an excellent job you did of giving feedback
to Dem Ravenburg's game in another thread. Good stuff.

Regarding combinations and ideas.
I m of the opinion that every combination you play you will have seen
the pattern or the idea before.

I've played some tricks, traps and combinations in my time and I
can tell you not one was the product of my own imagination.

Somehwere in my past I've a picked up an idea from playing
over games, or solving a combination puzzle.

Even my opinion is 2nd hand as I've read it and heard strong players
say this as well.

The more you study the more patterns you maintain.
Pattern recognition is a major part of a strong chess player's make up.

New ideas about openings, strategy and piece valuation are changing all the time.
But show me an original combination from the last 40 years.

It's not a knock at my fellow players, rather a nod to the pioneers
who went on before us. And testament to good players who have
put their work in at the chessboard.

Before you Look, First you Must See.

Before you start looking for the exact moves of a combination,
first you must see that there is a combination in the position.

How are you doing that?
How do you know that there is a combination in the position?
How do good players know when it's time to dive into the think tank
and find the combination.

Pattern recognition gained soley by study and past experience.

If you have not seen the idea before then the chances are you
will not even look for a combination.

Here is a simple puzzle. White to play. Mate in two.



Reveal Hidden Content

continued....(one fen per post)

Now White to play.



Piece of cake, bet you all got it in 5 seconds.
Pattern recognition at work.

Good - but how about a position you will not have seen
in any game or standard excercise book.

Your brain is about to start throwing up all kinds
of patterns and simple winning ideas.
But will it instantly throw up the mate in two
as quick as it did in the previous positions?

No. You know it's there and you will toil to find it
because you have never seen it before

Continued...(one fen per post)

White to play.



Be honest, if you had this position in a game against
some guy who would not resign. Would you stop here and go
for the mate in two.

You are most likely seeing:
1.Kb3+ Kb5 2.Qc6+ Ka6 3.Ra1 mate.
A bog standard mating positon.

continued...(Russ when we going to get more fen's per post?)

straight from your memory cells.
but the mate in two has eluded you.
It's there. Here is the first move.

Reveal Hidden Content

It's a theory, it's an opinion, it's also backed up some strong players,
other will disagree.

However none can disagree that the more patterns you have stored
the better a chess player you will become.

Play over games, solve combinations, absorb.

Originally posted by greenpawn34
Hi Varenka

First of all must say what an excellent job you did of giving feedback
to Dem Ravenburg's game in another thread. Good stuff.

Regarding combinations and ideas.
I m of the opinion that every combination you play you will have seen
the pattern or the idea before.

I've played some tricks, traps and combinations in my time and I
can K5[/fen]

[hidden]1.Ne7+ Kh8/h7 2.Rh5 mate.[/hidden]

continued....(one fen per post)

I think this is true on most occasions, but not all. I have found my way through several positions that I had no idea of the theme before. although it takes a lot more time even to find the focus point of the tactical opportunities, I did find the correct solution on occasion.

but here's one I must admit I believe I would never find. white to play and mate. even deep fritz 11 misses this one.



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