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  1. 18 Aug '12 10:24 / 2 edits
    This is a position from the Bayonet Attack. White has just played 11.Ng5.




    The book move for Black is Nf6. In my recent game, which I lost idiotically, Black played f4. It must be a mistake I think. 12.Bxh5 gxh5 13. Qxh5 h6 folllowed.




    What should be White's plan in this position? Usually in this opening White is interested in the queenside. Should White still try to attack it after this happened?
  2. 18 Aug '12 14:03
    Originally posted by WanderingKing
    [fen]r1bq1rk1/ppp1n1b1/3p3p/3Pp1NQ/1PP1Pp2/2N5/P4PPP/R1B1R1K1 w - - 0 14 [/fen]

    What should be White's plan in this position? Usually in this opening White is interested in the queenside. Should White still try to attack it after this happened?
    I don't see what else you can do. Most of your pieces are still aimed at that side, and you don't have any convenient entry points on the kingside. It's easier to whisk your queen over than to get your QR to the kingside and open a file there.

    Richard
  3. 18 Aug '12 15:02
    Well, I thought maybe Kh1-Rg1 and advancing the kingside pawns could do something, but I don't have the ability to judge if it makes sense or not.
  4. 21 Aug '12 12:45
    Originally posted by WanderingKing
    Well, I thought maybe Kh1-Rg1 and advancing the kingside pawns could do something, but I don't have the ability to judge if it makes sense or not.
    Well, neither do I, to be honest. But my first impression is still that, even with that rook over and perhaps the bishop pointing that way after getting rid of that black pawn (but how?), you still don't really have enough pieces there for a proper attack.

    Greenpawn will now prove me wrong and show that an attack that way is perfectly possible. He always does.

    Richard
  5. 21 Aug '12 13:26
    "Greenpawn will now prove me wrong....."

    Even if I'm wrong I'll claim I'm right.

    "...even with that rook over and perhaps the bishop pointing that way.."

    What are talking about? Which Rook over where? Over the hill?
    and the Bishop pointing that way. What way. To the the Moon?

    Is this the new Shallow Blue chess notation.

    The Ruy Lopez

    One pawn goes up the way, another pawn comes down the way.
    A knight out, a Knight out, the Bishop moves to point at a Knight.

    ( )


    OK the game.

    What bayonet attack is this ? The g-pawn is still on g2.
    A bayonet attack in my day was g2-g4 (or g7-g5) against a King-sdie castled
    position sometimes even from a Kingside castled position.


    Interesting. What does White do with his Knight.

    Back to f3 and the White Queen can be all alone with no retreat and Black can
    shift his pieces onto better squares attacking her.
    I can see no sac breaks in the centre to get the rest of gang in.

    Knight to e6 and after Bxe6 the e6 pawn will fall but you do get d5 for the Knight
    and White is a pawn up anyway. Play on the Queenside. (best?)

    Knight h3 then f3, King to h1 and then Knight h3-g1-f2....By then that
    White Queen may well have been trapped after f3.

    This is the kind of dilemna Black KID players like to be White in. I like Black.
    (I've convinced myself I like Black.)

    Anyway, not my problem I don't play the White side of the KID. If I did it
    would be the Four Pawns Attack or the Samisch.
  6. 21 Aug '12 14:38
    I'd go with Ne6, like greenpawn suggested. That pretty much kills black's kingside attack: there's not much he can do there without the g-pawn and the white-squared bishop. White gets a good initiative on the queenside and center.
  7. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    21 Aug '12 15:04
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    "Greenpawn will now prove me wrong....."

    Even if I'm wrong I'll claim I'm right.

    "...even with that rook over and perhaps the bishop pointing that way.."

    What are talking about? Which Rook over where? Over the hill?
    and the Bishop pointing that way. What way. To the the Moon?

    Is this the new Shallow Blue chess notation.

    The Ruy Lopez ...[text shortened]... the White side of the KID. If I did it
    would be the Four Pawns Attack or the Samisch.
    We all have to remember that Greenpawn34 started playing chess back when theory was made by hand rather than machine, and an opening innovation could take months to make it around the world.

    For those with scorecards trying to match the names and numbers, King's Indian Mar del Plata positions with b4 are referred to as the Bayonet Attack, while White systems involving an early h3 and g4 are collected under the rubrik of "the Benko-Pinter Attack".

    I know some people consider the labels to be irrelevant, but those right brain-dominant among us often use these labels as mental files where we can recall ideas and plans during a game, which aids in assessment and move selection.

    There's also a part of me who always wants to make sure that the player or players who came up with an idea receive credit. Benko's idea- along with Pinter's improvements- is superficially counterintuitive but deeply profound strategically.
  8. 21 Aug '12 18:58 / 2 edits
    I know some of you think Chess started in 1995 when Fritz 3
    won the World Computer Chess Championship but believe me there
    is over 300 years of Chess history before then.

    The Bayonet Attack is and always will be attributed to the g-pawn.
    (White or Black) without any h3/h6 preparation.
    The term descriping this particular move of the g-pawn has been around
    for over 100 years and will found in the writings of all the great players.

    Just because some wide-eyed wit nick's the name and passes it onto the b-pawn
    charging up the board against a King that is castled on the other side in an effort
    to jazz up the name and sell opening books does not make it correct.

    To select a modern example, there is the Bayonet attack in the Advanced Caro Kann.


    Shirvo beat Karpov with this line in 1999 (4 years after chess began).
    Note it is the g-pawn that has advanced.

    So this b2-b4 idea needs another name.

    1.b2-b4 Is called the Orangutan.

    An Orangutan is a monkey.

    We already have an opening called the Monkey's Bum.

    So how about the Baboon.

    OK 'Play The Baboon and Win!' it's not going to sell the opening books, CD's and Vid's
    you chumps buy (chumps...chimps...gedditt?) and nor is it going to make the
    dull squalid QP player sound exciting.

    "I played the Baboon today"

    does not quite have the same ring as:

    "Today I played the Bayonet Attack."
    (then you look at the b2 bayonet game and see b2-4 is attacking.....well nothing!)

    But it does have 2 letter B's in it and it is the b-pawn that is being pushed.
  9. 21 Aug '12 22:23
    Played on U-Chess a few minutes ago.

  10. 21 Aug '12 23:54
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    Played on U-Chess a few minutes ago.

    [pgn]
    1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. d5 Bg7 4. Nc3 O-O 5. e4 c6 6. Qc2 cxd5 7. cxd5 d6 8. Nf3 Bg4 9. Be2 Bxf3 10. Bxf3 Nbd7 11. O-O Rc8 12. Qe2 Ne5 13. Re1 Nxf3+ 14. Qxf3 Nd7 15. Bg5 Ne5 16. Qe3 Nc4 {I decided round about now I'd better get the Baboon pawn before I face the bayonet attack.} 17. Qc1 Nxb2 18. Qxb2 Bxc3 19. Qxb7 Bxa1 20. Bxe7 {I saw this coming.} 20... Qa5 21. Rxa1 Qxa2 22. Qxa7 Qxa7 {0-1}[/pgn]
    It's an interesting game, but it has no 'position from the Bayonet Attack'.
    Surely, someone will admonish you for making an off-topic post!
  11. 22 Aug '12 00:24
    It was the 9th post in the thread.
    That is about par for every thread on here going off at some tangent.

    So Duchess, what do you think about the Malaysian Fruit Bat?
    Some claim it is a pest whilst others claim they make good pets.
  12. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    22 Aug '12 03:18
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    I know some of you think Chess started in 1995 when Fritz 3
    won the World Computer Chess Championship but believe me there
    is over 300 years of Chess history before then.

    The Bayonet Attack is and always will be attributed to the g-pawn.
    (White or Black) without any h3/h6 preparation.
    The term descriping this particular move of the g-pawn has b ...[text shortened]... !)

    But it does have 2 letter B's in it and it is the b-pawn that is being pushed.
    And all this time I thought that there were only files a through f back in 1995, and that the g-file was added in '97 and the h-file in '99...
  13. Subscriber Paul Leggett
    Chess Librarian
    22 Aug '12 03:40
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    I know some of you think Chess started in 1995 when Fritz 3
    won the World Computer Chess Championship but believe me there
    is over 300 years of Chess history before then.

    The Bayonet Attack is and always will be attributed to the g-pawn.
    (White or Black) without any h3/h6 preparation.
    The term descriping this particular move of the g-pawn has b ...[text shortened]... !)

    But it does have 2 letter B's in it and it is the b-pawn that is being pushed.
    Here is a quality game from Shirov using the g4! idea in Philidor's Defense. I remembered it after reading GP's post, and thought it was worth sharing, as it is a pure example of what he is talking about.

  14. 22 Aug '12 04:42
    I'm a former Bayonet Player (now I switched to the classical main line 9.Ne1). In OP's game, I think Black made an error...but that doesn't mean white should attack on the Kingside! Black's error instead seems to make it a bit harder for him to attack. The kingside pawns seem a bit less effective in forcing weaknesses around White's King now. But White should still play on the Queenside, with the most obvious move being c5.
  15. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    22 Aug '12 06:34
    Originally posted by Paul Leggett
    Here is a quality game from Shirov using the g4! idea in Philidor's Defense. I remembered it after reading GP's post, and thought it was worth sharing, as it is a pure example of what he is talking about.

    [pgn][Event "Gibraltar (Game 5)"]
    [Site "?"]
    [Date "2006.??.??"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "Shirov, A."]
    [Black "Klinova, M."]
    [Result "1-0"]
    [ECO ...[text shortened]...
    14. Ng6+ Ke8 15. Bxb6 axb6 16. Nxh8 g5 17. Ng6 Bc5 18. O-O-O 1-0[/pgn]
    If I were Black I would have played on because there might still be the possibility for a draw.