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  1. 07 May '07 02:48
    I was thinking about Poisened Pawn Variations earlier tonight, which led me to think of the following idea for black against the 5.Bg5 variation of the Semi-Slav:

    1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 e6 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bg5 Qb6!? - The Fritz DB has it played exactly 0 times, but Fritz rates it pretty well for black, here's a sample line I created:

    1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nf3 e6 5. Bg5 Qb6!?
    6. Bxf6 gxf6 7. Qc2 dxc4 8. e3 Qb4 9. a3 Qb3 10. Qb1 Nd7 11. Nd2 Qb6 12. Nxc4 Qc7 13. Qc2 Nb6 14. O-O-O

    What do you guys think? Playable? I think it's pretty interesting, I actually want to try it.
  2. 07 May '07 03:02
    I have 15 games in my DB with 5...Qb6 and 11 times white played 6.Qc2 with a 59% score for white. If you want the games let me know... 2 played 6.Bxf6 with a 25% score for white
  3. 07 May '07 18:40 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by lepomis
    I have 15 games in my DB with 5...Qb6 and 11 times white played 6.Qc2 with a 59% score for white. If you want the games let me know... 2 played 6.Bxf6 with a 25% score for white
    6.Qc2 must be punished then.

    I think I have a definite improvement for black in the 6.Bxf6 line with 6...Qxb2! 7.Qc1 Qxc1+ 8.Rxc1 gxf6 9.cxd5 Ba3 10.Rc2 Na6 11.dxe6 Bxe6 and I think black has good play with the bishop pair on an open board.
  4. 07 May '07 20:31
    5 Qc2 is met with?
  5. 08 May '07 00:28
    Originally posted by Shinidoki
    5 Qc2 is met with?
    It's 6, and I'm still searching - probably 6...Nbd7.
  6. 08 May '07 02:16
    Originally posted by cmsMaster
    It's 6, and I'm still searching - probably 6...Nbd7.
    I think you are on the right track... blacks most common response was 6...Ne4 and it justs gets bad after that. So maybe its not the Qc2 that was good but the Ne4 that wasnt good for black.
  7. 09 May '07 19:40
    I wanted to give a fair amount of thought to your idea before posting a response. After all, if ... a6 is often a reasonable move in the Slav, then surely ... Qb6 is worth a look. Your analysis does seem to confirm that 6. Bxf6 does not work out well for White.

    The problem arises after the other reasonable move 6. Qc2. After your suggested 6... Nbd7, if White plays 7. e3 we have transposed from a Semi-Slav into a Queen's Gambit Declined. Consider the moves played out in the following order: 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Nbd7 5. e3 c6 6. Nf3. If Black now plays 6... Qa5, this is the Cambridge Springs variation and it has a very respectable reputation. If instead 6... Qb6 7. Qc2 and we have arrived at the same position as in your line. In the Cambridge Springs, Black has a fair amount of counterplay which is unfortunately missing here. So, I think with best play, it leads to a somewhat inferior (for Black) version of the QGD.
  8. 09 May '07 19:55
    White simply "carries on" development with Qc2. No big deal. No Queen's Pawn player would lose sleep over Qb6.
  9. Donation !~TONY~!
    1...c5!
    09 May '07 21:09
    Maybe I suggest the Tony approach:

    1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3 e6 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Bg5 Qb6!? 6. Qc2!? dxc4! 7. e3 Qa6! 8. Nd2 b5, when a sample line given by Junior is 9. b3! cxb3 10. Nxb3 Qb6! and it seems generally confused about the position, but White definitely has play for the pawn. I think I am gonna start to play this on ICC and see what happens.
  10. 09 May '07 22:59
    Originally posted by !~TONY~!
    Maybe I suggest the Tony approach:

    1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3 e6 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Bg5 Qb6!? 6. Qc2!? dxc4! 7. e3 Qa6! 8. Nd2 b5, when a sample line given by Junior is 9. b3! cxb3 10. Nxb3 Qb6! and it seems generally confused about the position, but White definitely has play for the pawn. I think I am gonna start to play this on ICC and see what happens.
    That definitely looks good for black - but what if 8.Be2 instead.
  11. 10 May '07 00:14
    6 ... dxc4 definitely takes the game back into the realm of the Slav. And just to add even more layers to our analysis, perhaps White should play 7.e4 rather than 7. e3
  12. 10 May '07 00:21
    Originally posted by AlboMalapropFoozer
    6 ... dxc4 definitely takes the game back into the realm of the Slav. And just to add even more layers to our analysis, perhaps White should play 7.e4 rather than 7. e3
    e4 and e3 look about equally good, though I think Nb2 isn't best.