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Originally posted by WulebgrWhile there are a lot of blitz games played on FICS, it's by no means the only kind of chess played there. Some FICS users (for example, the STC Bunch http://www.stcbunch.net ) like to play at slower time controls. FICS also has a number of chess variants. Crazyhouse is very popular on FICS, and fics also has Fischer Random, atomic, suicide chess, and probably some other variants I can't think of off the top of my head at the moment.
The two cannot be compared. One is a server for instant chess, the other a correspondence site. While FICS offers CC and RHP offers blitz, neither of these have enough merit to warrant comparison.
For online play of the sort offered at FICS, playchess has passed by ICC as the best server. Both of these are light years ahead of FICS, mainly because FICS takes no steps to deal with its lag pandemic, and is ineffective at tracking down cheaters (likely the main cause of the ratings there running slightly lower than ICC and playchess).
That's really not true. If lag bothers you, you can use Timeseal (already built in to a number of FICS interfaces), which only counts your thinking time against you, and ignores any lag. You can also play at slower time controls... which shouldn't be a problem for correspondence chess players 😉 At these slower speeds, a second or two of lag isn't going to make any difference.
But, honestly, I rarely experience lag on FICS; though, I admit that I'm blessed with a cable modem, and do use Timeseal anyway.
PS: I already posted this response once, but it seems to have disappeared for some reason. So I'm posting it again.
Originally posted by synesisI rarely lag. My opponents often do. A high percentage lag more than ten seconds over a 3 0 game--just enough to be a minor irritant (mine is usually under 3 seconds). About 10% lag half a minute or more over the same time--a significant amount in such a short game.
But, honestly, I rarely experience lag on FICS; though, I admit that I'm blessed with a cable modem, and do use Timeseal anyway.
Both ICC and Playchess measure lag for all users, and routinely disallow participation in certain events and certain time controls when it exceeds a certain threshold.
When I want a slow game, I'll play a human face-to-face, or I'll play CC here and elsewhere. I go to FICS and the like mostly for 3 0 or 5 0, sometimes 15 0 or when I really want to slow down, 15 3. Anything slower than that is not the sort of play I want in front of a computer monitor.
My point, and my beef with FICS, is that they should measure lag and enforce user preferences for those of us that that find it both common and irritating. Despite this issue, I play on FICS from time-to-time, sometimes for hours on end. It's a good free site, but it is a far cry from those I pay for.
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Originally posted by WulebgrIt sounds like you are under the impression that lag somehow favors the player who is lagging. This is not the case.
I rarely lag. My opponents often do. A high percentage lag more than ten seconds over a 3 0 game--just enough to be a minor irritant (mine is usually under 3 seconds). About 10% lag half a minute or more over the same time--a significant amount in such a short game.
Both ICC and Playchess measure lag for all users, and routinely disallow participation in ...[text shortened]... e, sometimes for hours on end. It's a good free site, but it is a far cry from those I pay for.
On FICS, a player either uses Timeseal, in which case their thinking time (ie. the real time they take to move) is counted, and any lag on their connection is not counted... or, they don't use Timeseal, and any lag on their connection is counted as if they were using that time to think of their move.
Thus, without Timeseal, lag penalizes the person who's lagging. And with Timeseal, lag neither penalizes nor benefits either player.
I remember the bad old days, when I didn't use Timeseal, and had a crappy dial-up modem, and lag was rife... I'd make my move, and my client would freeze, and then eventually the move would be made and I'd have an extra 12 seconds (or whatever the lag was) added on to my time, as if I'd used that time to think of my move. In no way did this benefit me.
That's why using Timeseal and having a good connection to a relatively local and not-overutilized server is essential. It minimizes both the amount of lag you'll experience, and the effect of that lag on your game. But, if your opponents are experiencing lag, all the worse for them.
From time to time on FICS, I do run in to an opponent who's lagged... but, again, this is relatively rare these days. In those few cases, it can be annoying to see seconds pass on their time, but the clock stand still or move backwards... but, in that case they're using Timeseal, and they haven't actually gained any extra thinking time. So it's just a subjective, false impression that my lagged opponent is getting any kind of unfair advantage.
When I want a slow game, I'll play a human face-to-face, or I'll play CC here and elsewhere. I go to FICS and the like mostly for 3 0 or 5 0, sometimes 15 0 or when I really want to slow down, 15 3. Anything slower than that is not the sort of play I want in front of a computer monitor.
Well, you're fortunate if you can have a wide choice of opponents in face-to-face games any time you feel like playing, as you can on FICS. I would definitely prefer to play all my games face-to-face, no matter what the time controls.
But, apart from lack of opportunity, face-to-face meetings have their own downsides. You usually can't play them in your pajamas, late at night or early in the morning before you head for work, or sneaked in to your work or school day. Though I did hear about one chess player who somehow manages to play his friends in the nude. 🙂
Finally, these days, I notice that it's been easier for me to find people willing to play longer games online rather than face-to-face anyway. Fast games tend to be the order of the day in clubs, which is where I find the vast majority of my strong face-to-face opponents.
Originally posted by synesisThere is no club in my hometown so I play on the Internet almost exclusively. I am restricting myself to 15 0 on FICS now, I am a bit addicted to 1 0 but I found over-playing that time control can have detrimental effects on your OTB playing.
It sounds like you are under the impression that lag somehow favors the player who is lagging. This is not the case.
On FICS, a player either uses Timeseal, in which case their thinking time (ie. the real time they take to move) is counted, and any lag on their connection is not counted... or, they don't use Timeseal, and any lag on their connection is c ...[text shortened]... s, which is where I find the vast majority of my strong face-to-face opponents.
15 0 is a nice time control, I am playing one at this very minute against some idiot who refuses to resign.
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Originally posted by synesisIt's not an impression, but a fact. Having said that, I realize that it's not an objective advantage. It is a psychological one. It irritates me because it throws me off my rhythm. Nevertheless, persistent laggers grow accustomed to the rhythm of their own lag. My lag was frequent in 1998-1999 (I was using dial-up at home to connect through the T3 line at work). I was able to use my lag to advantage at fast time controls. With premove and lag, I was able to use no time in certain endgames, for example.
It sounds like you are under the impression that lag somehow favors the player who is lagging. This is not the case.
BTW, I doubt the speed of one's connection has much influence. I had dial-up for several years and only lagged during peak hours (when I and all my neighbors were online). With cable, I still lag during those rare occasions when my son is playing X-box and the spouse is uploading photos. When a server is oversubscribed, its customers will lag regardless of speed.
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Originally posted by WulebgrWell, that's the opposite of my experience with lag, where I'd have seconds added on to my time even though I'd already moved. It was really frustrating, and why Timeseal and getting a cable modem were such a godsend. Are you sure what you describe happened on FICS and not on ICC ?
It's not an impression, but a fact. Having said that, I realize that it's not an objective advantage. It is a psychological one. It irritates me because it throws me off my rhythm. Nevertheless, persistent laggers grow accustomed to the rhythm of their own lag. My lag was frequent in 1998-1999 (I was using dial-up at home to connect through the T3 line at wo ...[text shortened]... me controls. With premove and lag, I was able to use no time in certain endgames, for example.
BTW, I doubt the speed of one's connection has much influence. I had dial-up for several years and only lagged during peak hours (when I and all my neighbors were online). With cable, I still lag during those rare occasions when my son is playing X-box and the spouse is uploading photos. When a server is oversubscribed, its customers will lag regardless of speed.
It's not the speed of the connection, but the quality. Regular phone lines are of notoriously poor quality and unreliable. That's one reason connections used to get dropped all the time, not to mention the periodic degradations in service. With cable modems and other high speed and high quality lines that is no longer the case (unless there's something wrong with your cable). Of course, other factors such as client, server, and bandwidth utilization, along with distance from the server play a role in lag as well.
Originally posted by synesisIt was mostly on Chess.net, but also ICC, which I started playing on in 1999 (although I played a couple games on an early version in 1989 at my brother's house (he is a programmer). I started playing on FICS in 2003.
Are you sure what you describe happened on FICS and not on ICC ?
Lag has the same function on every server, and they all offer timeseal. Most also measure lag.
In the game I just finished on FICS, I lagged an average of 0.2 seconds per move (higher than my norm) to my opponent's 0.5. In the 15 0 game, however, it was not a factor.
I play at FICS now its a very good server. I used to play at Chess.net before they started charging. Chess.net used to be fun - you could fool about and have fun with admins who used to try and rule like school monitors.
FICS is a good place to play. It has lesson bots etc. The ideal would be Chess.nets proprietary chess client being usable on FICS !
Originally posted by CaptainBIdseyeI liked Chess.net's client in 1998, but it was the same in 2003 when I went back there for a week. Meanwhile, all the other sites had improved clients. Unless Chess.net has dramatically improved in the past few years, they are hardly worth mentioning. FICS offers a dozen different clients that have more features than Chess.net's .
FICS is a good place to play. It has lesson bots etc. The ideal would be Chess.nets proprietary chess client being usable on FICS !