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  1. 17 Jul '06 11:27
    I've been researching the Jerome Gambit (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.Bxf7+ Kxf7 5.Nxe5+) for about 5 years, and am interested in any experience people have had with (or against) it here at RHP -- and the games, of course.

    I know veijoasquerosos likes to play Bxf7+ against all sorts of openings, but he usually begins 1.e4 and then 2.Bc4 (as in 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 Nf6 3.Bxf7+ etc). I'm looking for the more traditional moves with the Bishop sac at move four.

    Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
  2. 17 Jul '06 14:29
    Originally posted by perrypawnpusher
    I've been researching the Jerome Gambit (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.Bxf7+ Kxf7 5.Nxe5+) for about 5 years, and am interested in any experience people have had with (or against) it here at RHP -- and the games, of course.

    I know veijoasquerosos likes to play Bxf7+ against all sorts of openings, but he usually begins 1.e4 and then 2.Bc4 (as in 1. ...[text shortened]... nal moves with the Bishop sac at move four.

    Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
    Is that actually playable?
  3. 17 Jul '06 15:14
    It could be playable... on a beginner level. I think the objective is to take back the knight with 6.Qh5+ but what if black moves 6... Kf6? white cannot reclaim the knight and will have a hard time reclaiming any material if black plays properly.
  4. 17 Jul '06 15:36
    Originally posted by ChessJester
    It could be playable... on a beginner level. I think the objective is to take back the knight with 6.Qh5+ but what if black moves 6... Kf6? white cannot reclaim the knight and will have a hard time reclaiming any material if black plays properly.
    Actually,6....,Kf6 is bad cause white regains both the knight and bishop after 7.Qf5+
    After 6...,Kf8 7.Qxe5,d6 white gave his bishop for 2 pawns + black can't castle no more.I doubt it's enough compensation for a bishop.
  5. 17 Jul '06 15:53
    Originally posted by Gorgar
    Actually,6....,Kf6 is bad cause white regains both the knight and bishop after 7.Qf5+
    After 6...,Kf8 7.Qxe5,d6 white gave his bishop for 2 pawns + black can't castle no more.I doubt it's enough compensation for a bishop.
    Interesting. I see kf6 is bad now. Good thing I never play the piano... although I still think this line is inferior and would like to play against it.
  6. 17 Jul '06 16:00
    Originally posted by ChessJester
    Interesting. I see kf6 is bad now. Good thing I never play the piano... although I still think this line is inferior and would like to play against it.
    Don't look at me!I'm nuts but not THAT nuts LOL
    Why don't you challenge perry?
  7. 17 Jul '06 18:38
    Originally posted by Gorgar
    Is that actually playable?
    The Jerome Gambit is "playable" when giving odds to a weaker player, or perhaps among weaker players or when playing blitz or bullet chess for fun. It has a certain amount of "surprise" value. My interest has been mostly "historical" although I've won a few blitz games (Jerome played a number of games at correspondence and occasionally won.)

    There are many refutations: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.Bxf7+ Kxf7 5.Nxe5 Nxe5 (5....Kf8! was an early refutation, although it was not enough for Carrington, in his second match against the Mexican champion Vasquez in 1876 -- White still won) 6.Qh5+ (for a while Jerome preferred 6.d4, but that was before anyone discovered the brilliant 6...Qh4!, another refutation) g6! (6...Kf8! wins for Black, as suggested in the Danish chess magazine Nordisk Skaktidende in 1877; as do 6...Ng6! and 6...Kf6! although Vasquez prevailed against each in that 1876 match) 7.Qxe5 Qe7! (played successfully by Whistler against Jerome in a series of correspondence games in 1876; Blackburne's 7...d6, which led to such a smashing game in "around 1880" was thought by those who actually analyzed it to favor White, although recent analysis by Chandler and Dimitrov show that Black draws) and the whole thing turns out badly...
  8. 17 Jul '06 18:44
    Originally posted by ChessJester
    It could be playable... on a beginner level. I think the objective is to take back the knight with 6.Qh5+ but what if black moves 6... Kf6? white cannot reclaim the knight and will have a hard time reclaiming any material if black plays properly.
    1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.Bxf7+ Kxf7 5.Nxe5+ Nxe5+ 6.Qh5+ Kf6! 7.Qf5+ Kd6! looks scary for Black, but he won in due course, as in Jerome - Shinkman 1874. The "MCOs" and "ECOs" of the late 1800s fell over each other pointing out that Black could either a) grab all the material, and win, or b) grab some of the material and win, or c) ignore most of the material, and win.
  9. 18 Jul '06 23:00
    Originally posted by Gorgar
    Don't look at me!I'm nuts but not THAT nuts LOL
    Why don't you challenge perry?
    Here's an example of White lucking out - one of those "in between the opening and the endgame the gods have placed the middlegame" kind of things... (Blitz? Check. Weaker opponent? Check. Surprise? Check. Lots o' luck? Checkmate.)

    perrypawnpusher (1446) - WHITE-KING (1365) [C50]
    ICC 2 12 Internet Chess Club, 14.06.2004

    1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.Bxf7+ Kxf7 5.Nxe5+ Nxe5 6.Qh5+ Ng6 7.Qxc5 N8e7 8.0-0 Rf8 9.f4 Nc6 10.Qd5+ Ke8 11.d3 Nge7 12.Qg5 Rf7 13.Nc3 h6 14.Qh5 Kf8 15.f5 Ne5 16.d4 N5c6 17.d5 Ne5 18.f6 Rxf6 19.Rxf6+ gxf6 20.Qxh6+ Kf7 21.Qh7+ Kf8 22.Bh6+ Ke8 23.Qh8+ Kf7 24.Qg7+ Ke8 25.Qf8# 1-0