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  1. 18 Oct '11 09:44
    1. I seem to enjoy playing more as black.
    2. I actually win a higher percentage of my games as black.

    Is it simply that point 2 occurs because of point 1 or is there something else about my chess game [or lack of] that would explain it? Can anyone advise?

    Thanks in advance.
  2. 18 Oct '11 09:51
    Originally posted by DiscoFingerz
    1. I seem to enjoy playing more as black.
    2. I actually win a higher percentage of my games as black.

    Is it simply that point 2 occurs because of point 1 or is there something else about my chess game [or lack of] that would explain it? Can anyone advise?

    Thanks in advance.
    it could be psychological, with white we are told that there shoulkd be an advantage
    with the first move, therefore we may press too hard in situations which demand
    restraint and patience, alternatively, perhaps you feel more comfortable defending
    against an attack, or it could be think that players spend a disproportionate amount of
    time on their black repertoires than they do their white ones. I dunno, but i think the
    phenomena is common at our level.
  3. 18 Oct '11 10:02
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    it could be psychological, with white we are told that there shoulkd be an advantage
    with the first move, therefore we may press too hard in situations which demand
    restraint and patience, alternatively, perhaps you feel more comfortable defending
    against an attack, or it could be think that players spend a disproportionate amount of
    time on ...[text shortened]... ires than they do their white ones. I dunno, but i think the
    phenomena is common at our level.
    Seems to fit with me too
    I win less but also lose less as black, getting significantly more draws than as white. That is almost definitely due to the psychological "I should attack" feeling as white and "I should be wary" feeling as black, at least initially...
  4. 18 Oct '11 10:29
    once there was a thread discussing the win percentage phenomenon. at gm level, the single tempo of the opening for white makes a huge difference, often a draw as black is considered actually a win. but at lower levels this tempo is usually lost anyhow somewhere - so it becomes more important what you are comfortable with, or like to play...
  5. 18 Oct '11 10:41
    Originally posted by morgski
    Seems to fit with me too
    I win less but also lose less as black, getting significantly more draws than as white. That is almost definitely due to the psychological "I should attack" feeling as white and "I should be wary" feeling as black, at least initially...
    do you think it might help to play a defensive system as white, simply a tempo up?
  6. 18 Oct '11 10:47
    black 1.e4,e6 French defence,all I need to know

    white 1.e4,e5/e6/d5/d6/c5/c6/g6/Nf6/Nc6

    Big difference for us,amateurs,with limited time to spend on chess.
    It's actually amazing white still manages to win some 😉
  7. 18 Oct '11 10:56
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    do you think it might help to play a defensive system as white, simply a tempo up?
    I'd have to change my style of play completely Robbie. Is it even possible to play a reverse Scandinavian? (or what was it GP called it? Centre Counter? How do you counter the centre if you have the right to move there first?). A Reverse Sicilian might be fun too, although completely inappropriate and probably unsound.
    I think there's a name for a defensive system as white... Colle? 😉
  8. 18 Oct '11 11:01
    1.d3,e5 2.d4 🙂
  9. 18 Oct '11 11:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by torten
    1.d3,e5 2.d4 🙂
    what does a Frenchie play against 1.b3, e6? d5? c5? e5?
  10. 18 Oct '11 11:15
    1.b3!!,resign
  11. 18 Oct '11 11:20
    Originally posted by morgski
    I'd have to change my style of play completely Robbie. Is it even possible to play a reverse Scandinavian? (or what was it GP called it? Centre Counter? How do you counter the centre if you have the right to move there first?). A Reverse Sicilian might be fun too, although completely inappropriate and probably unsound.
    I think there's a name for a defensive system as white... Colle? 😉
    i think we must be true to ourselves at least, Sicilian reversed is just an English, tis it
    not? thus it appears to me that instead of having a different line for each of our
    opponents defences, just by way of example, we play 1.e4, we can expect many
    replies, Modern, Pirc, French (spit ding!), Scandinavian, Caro Khan, Ruy Lopez, Latvian
    Gambit, Elephant gambit, Scicilian (classical, Dragon, Shev, Najdorf,etc etc), would it
    not be better to dictate the choice of weapon from the very beginning, drastically
    cutting down our need to learn all that theory? even further to this would it not be
    better to play similar lines with black as with white? thus English could be our main
    choice as white and Sicilian/benoni as black.
  12. 18 Oct '11 11:21 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by torten
    1.b3!!,resign
    good choice, the move is so devastatingly powerful, it was your only option, no pawns in the centre for attackers and counter attackers!
  13. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    18 Oct '11 11:49
    The common opinion is that at the club level there is no inherent advantage to the first move as it is offset by getting to play one's "system".

    The irony is so many club players are worried about having to know theory that they are willing to give up the first move advantage to play "their system" and therefor both sides are battling to play their theory instead of relying on their talent.

    It's also a general rule that a Class B player will drop about a "pawn" every 7-8 moves vs a master. So we can also see why the first move might not matter so much at the club level.
  14. 18 Oct '11 12:00 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by nimzo5
    The common opinion is that at the club level there is no inherent advantage to the first move as it is offset by getting to play one's "system".

    The irony is so many club players are worried about having to know theory that they are willing to give up the first move advantage to play "their system" and therefor both sides are battling to play their theory aster. So we can also see why the first move might not matter so much at the club level.
    as has been established, the so called first move advantage is practically useless at
    club level, unless of course your in the 2700's club, it is therefore a trade off between
    playing a system that you know and are comfortable with against an advantage that is
    hard to realise at club level. I have seen games where amateurs beat masters,
    grandmasters in fact, simply because they are more familiar with their systems.
  15. Standard member nimzo5
    Ronin
    18 Oct '11 14:54
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    as has been established, the so called first move advantage is practically useless at
    club level, unless of course your in the 2700's club, it is therefore a trade off between
    playing a system that you know and are comfortable with against an advantage that is
    hard to realise at club level. I have seen games where amateurs beat masters,
    grandmasters in fact, simply because they are more familiar with their systems.
    I want some pgn's of amateurs beating GM's- I suspect it wasn't because of an opening.

    They also say that below 2600 their is no real advantage to the bishop pair... it shouldn't stop the club player from trying to realize the advantage in their games.
    If a player has no aspirations of improving then by all means play 1.b3, Na3, f4 etc.

    If you want to improve you have to be exposed to chess ideas instead of hiding behind system play.