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  1. 20 May '08 02:44
    if you had to choose which piece to keep, which one would it be? essentially, which is the better piece & why? of course it would depend on the position, but in general or on average, which do you prefer to keep?
  2. 20 May '08 02:51
    pair of bishops > pair of knights generally in end games and such
  3. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Gonzalo de Córdoba
    20 May '08 04:14
    Originally posted by sidneyoyoyo
    if you had to choose which piece to keep, which one would it be? essentially, which is the better piece & why? of course it would depend on the position, but in general or on average, which do you prefer to keep?
    Thread 32066
  4. 20 May '08 04:56
    general rule knights are better in closed games because they can jump over pieces bishops are better in open games because they can control the long diaganols. So in general depends on the position.
  5. Subscriber AttilaTheHorn
    Erro Ergo Sum
    20 May '08 10:41
    In our chess club kid's section, some young kids were recently debating which was better, a knight or a bishop. I listened to this discussion among young learners with interest. Eventually they turned to me and asked, "Which chess piece do you like best?"

    I responded, "I like the king best, and I'll do anything to protect him," thus driving home the point that this was the whole point of the game. They got the message, because it needed to be reinforced to them. Then I explained that knights are usually better in closed positions while bishops like open positions.
  6. 21 May '08 06:54
    haha i appreciate the responses and the link to the other thread
  7. 21 May '08 14:49
    Originally posted by AttilaTheHorn
    In our chess club kid's section, some young kids were recently debating which was better, a knight or a bishop. I listened to this discussion among young learners with interest. Eventually they turned to me and asked, "Which chess piece do you like best?"

    I responded, "I like the king best, and I'll do anything to protect him," thus driving home the ...[text shortened]... ned that knights are usually better in closed positions while bishops like open positions.
    nice....Do you mind if I use that one with the kids I work with?
  8. Subscriber AttilaTheHorn
    Erro Ergo Sum
    21 May '08 16:58
    Originally posted by c guy1
    nice....Do you mind if I use that one with the kids I work with?
    No problem, go ahead.
    Sometimes young kids need to be reminded what the purpose of the game is. I will chastize a young player for promoting pawns to get overwhelming force when he can easily perform, say, the K + R vs. K checkmate. Amazingly, when they stumble into in a stalemate because of all that force on the board, they think this is somehow unfair. So I say, "I'm not the least bit impressed by how many queens you have on the board. What I am impressed by is you checkmating the opponent effeciently."
  9. Standard member ivan2908
    SelfProclaimedTitler
    21 May '08 17:42
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Thread 32066
    And 100000000 other threads on this subject. It depends on the position, open, closed bla bla bla................. blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....

    I prefer queen. She's hotter then fat bishop and I am not too much into animals
  10. 21 May '08 17:47 / 1 edit
    Kasparov once jokingly said "The worst bishop is better than the best knight" and although its a tongue in cheek comment there is a grain of truth in it. Closed positions generally become open positions in which the bishop is better, also the bishop always has the chance to dominate the knight rarely its the other way around.

    Heres a good demonstration

    [Event "Palma de Mallorca iz Rd: 19"]
    [Site "Palma de Mallorca iz Rd: 19"]
    [Date "1970.??.??"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "Robert James Fischer"]
    [Black "Mark Taimanov"]
    [Result "1-0"]
    [ECO "B44"]
    [PlyCount "115"]
    [EventDate "1970.??.??"]

    1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 e6 5. Nb5 d6 6. c4 a6 7. N5c3 Nf6 8. Be2
    Be7 9. O-O O-O 10. Na3 b6 11. Be3 Bd7 12. Rc1 Qb8 13. f3 Ra7 14. Nc2 Rd8 15.
    Qe1 Be8 16. Qf2 Rb7 17. a4 a5 18. Nd4 Nxd4 19. Bxd4 Nd7 20. Qg3 Bf6 21. Bxf6
    Nxf6 22. Rfd1 e5 23. Qh4 h6 24. Rd2 Nd7 25. Bd1 Nc5 26. f4 exf4 27. Qxf4 Ne6
    28. Qg3 Qc7 29. Nd5 Qc5+ 30. Kh1 Bc6 31. Rc3 Ng5 32. Bc2 Bxd5 33. Rxd5 Qc7 34.
    e5 dxe5 35. Qxe5 Rdb8 36. Bf5 Qxe5 37. Rxe5 g6 38. h4 Nh7 39. Bg4 Nf6 40. Bf3
    Rd7 41. Rb5 Rd4 42. c5 Rxh4+ 43. Kg1 Rb4 44. Rxb4 axb4 45. Rc4 bxc5 46. Rxc5
    Kg7 47. a5 Re8 48. Rc1 Re5 49. Ra1 Re7 50. Kf2 Ne8 51. a6 Ra7 52. Ke3 Nc7 53.
    Bb7 Ne6 54. Ra5 Kf6 55. Kd3 Ke7 56. Kc4 Kd6 57. Rd5+ Kc7 58. Kb5 1-0

    Taimanov plays to have a good knight against a bad bishop and does achieve this goal, Fischer then goes on to use the "bad" bishop to pretty much win the game.
  11. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    21 May '08 18:05
    Originally posted by Bedlam
    Kasparov once jokingly said "The worst bishop is better than the best knight" and although its a tongue in cheek comment there is a grain of truth in it. Closed positions generally become open positions in which the bishop is better, also the bishop always has the chance to dominate the knight rarely its the other way around.

    Heres a good demonstration
    ...[text shortened]... ischer then goes on to use the "bad" bishop to pretty much win the game.
    Closed positions generally become open positions in which the bishop is better,

    Generally its not easy to make closed position more open if both players does not want to do it. Also even in some kind of open positions knight may be more useful than bishop.

    also the bishop always has the chance to dominate the knight rarely its the other way around.

    Not always - in many closed positions bishop has no chances against knight in the hands of skilled player.
  12. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    21 May '08 18:09
    I've been looking at dragon endgames lately, and it seems to me the black knights are often devastating, while white's bishops tend to be just tempo wasters.
  13. 21 May '08 18:27
    Originally posted by Korch
    [b]Closed positions generally become open positions in which the bishop is better,

    Generally its not easy to make closed position more open if both players does not want to do it. Also even in some kind of open positions knight may be more useful than bishop.

    also the bishop always has the chance to dominate the knight rarely its the other way ar ...[text shortened]... - in many closed positions bishop has no chances against knight in the hands of skilled player.
    Its easier to make closed positions open than the other way around.


    By dominate I mean take away all the squares the knight can move to pinning it to part of the board while the bishop still maintains its control to the edges.
  14. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    21 May '08 18:40 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Bedlam
    Its easier to make closed positions open than the other way around.


    By dominate I mean take away all the squares the knight can move to pinning it to part of the board while the bishop still maintains its control to the edges.
    Its easier to make closed positions open than the other way around.

    Does it contradicts with my statements?

    By dominate I mean take away all the squares the knight can move to pinning it to part of the board while the bishop still maintains its control to the edges.

    I`m not sure that in many closed positions bishop has chance to dominate.
  15. 21 May '08 19:00
    Originally posted by Korch
    [b]Its easier to make closed positions open than the other way around.

    Does it contradicts with my statements?

    By dominate I mean take away all the squares the knight can move to pinning it to part of the board while the bishop still maintains its control to the edges.

    I`m not sure that in many closed positions bishop has chance to dominate.[/b]
    Nope, Im only pointing out that saying "I have a closed position lets trade my knights for their bishops" needs to be looked at deeper. Iv seen a lot of players swap off bishops for knights and vice versa without really considering how the game would develop only realising that in the static position that one piece is stronger.
    Taimanov was a very strong player and got a position where it looked like the knight would be better, Fischer then made sure the knight couldnt go back to c5 and then set about making the position favour his bishop.

    I totally agree in closed positions the bishops chances to dominate the knight are slim.