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  1. 14 Jan '09 18:16
    http://www.ficgs.com/Engines-allowed-forum_6461.html
  2. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    14 Jan '09 18:20
    so apparently ficgs allows engines. what's the question?
  3. 14 Jan '09 18:25
    Originally posted by wormwood
    so apparently ficgs allows engines. what's the question?
    No question really, I was just suprised they allowed engines and then claimed because it is in the rules it is not cheating.
    I was suprised at how people in that thread think its ok to have a computer play for you, at least nobody seemed to deny that was the case.

    I pointed it out partly for that and partly for the claim that other sites that dont allow engines have cheaters when they claim FICGS dont, every chess site will have cheaters obviously but a site that openly allows it seems strange to say the least, or maybe they have resigned themselves to the fact that maybe it just cannot be stopped and has therefore allowed it in the rules.

    I thought it may interest people, sorry if I bore :p
  4. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    14 Jan '09 19:17
    Originally posted by Pigface1
    No question really, I was just suprised they allowed engines and then claimed because it is in the rules it is not cheating.
    I was suprised at how people in that thread think its ok to have a computer play for you, at least nobody seemed to deny that was the case.

    I pointed it out partly for that and partly for the claim that other sites that dont allow ...[text shortened]... as therefore allowed it in the rules.

    I thought it may interest people, sorry if I bore :p
    well, if their particular variant allows it, it's not cheating. can't say I'd be interested in playing on a site like that, but I guess to each their own...
  5. 14 Jan '09 19:27
    Originally posted by wormwood
    well, if their particular variant allows it, it's not cheating. can't say I'd be interested in playing on a site like that, but I guess to each their own...
    Agreed its not against their site rules but I would feel I was cheating if I let an engine play one move for me, I cant imagine joining a site knowing that its full of engines, may as well just play chessmaster.
    I wonder if there are other sites that simply allow engines, I nip in and out of lots of chess sites to browse but dont think I have ever seen one allowing them until now.
  6. 15 Jan '09 00:53
    I used to play on one turn based site but, despite several posts on engine use the owner has his head up his arse! This idiot can't see any cheating going on. His site has so many cheats & he can't see them... HA. I always run a lost game through several popular engines & detect them move for move. Fritz seems the most popular cheat program so far. I am a fairly strong player & like what was said... Might as well play Fritz & save your Internet Time & money to join up!
  7. 15 Jan '09 04:27
    Computer have very easy time in opening and endgame, but I think that we can have the advance during the middle game.
  8. Standard member wormwood
    If Theres Hell Below
    15 Jan '09 04:35
    Originally posted by Sophy
    Computer have very easy time in opening and endgame, but I think that we can have the advance during the middle game.
    actually it's just the other way around. except endgames with tablebases. engines are notoriously horrible at openings, and limited by computational horizon in the endgame.
  9. Standard member Korch
    Chess Warrior
    15 Jan '09 09:14
    Originally posted by wormwood
    actually it's just the other way around. except endgames with tablebases. engines are notoriously horrible at openings, and limited by computational horizon in the endgame.
    About computer playing without opening databases:

    http://rybkaforum.net/cgi-bin/rybkaforum/topic_show.pl?tid=1614
  10. 15 Jan '09 11:00
    Originally posted by Sophy
    Computer have very easy time in opening and endgame, but I think that we can have the advance during the middle game.
    Yes a 1200 rated player such as yourself should have no problem trashing an engine.
  11. Standard member Kepler
    Demon Duck
    15 Jan '09 11:33
    Originally posted by Pigface1
    No question really, I was just suprised they allowed engines and then claimed because it is in the rules it is not cheating.
    I was suprised at how people in that thread think its ok to have a computer play for you, at least nobody seemed to deny that was the case.

    I pointed it out partly for that and partly for the claim that other sites that dont allow ...[text shortened]... I thought it may interest people, sorry if I bore :p
    ICGS can say that they have no cheats but
    If there is no rule against using an engine then such use is not cheating. That is why FICGS can say they do not have cheats but other sites that ban engine use do have cheats. This site is an example. Computer use is banned so anyone using such aids is cheating and we have regular debates (=insult contests) about the matter. We also have people banned for such activities. On FICGS they don't have that problem simply because it isn't against the rules. Whether that is to everyone's taste or not is another matter.

    I notice one of the FICGS guys trots out the usual line that detecting engine use is impossible. Here we are mostly convinced it is possible, some even think it is possible to detect 100% of engine use. I guess it depends on the people in charge. If they don't believe it can be done or can't (or won't) justify the expense (in time, money, whatever) then engine use is not banned.
  12. Standard member Wulebgr
    Angler
    15 Jan '09 15:25
    I've played at FICGS and without the strongest engines--no Rybka. In no game there did I blindly follow an engine's recommendation, but spent many hours using multiple engines (and often more than one computer) to explore certain lines deeply. I also sought to steer some games into lines I would play OTB even when it was not an engine's first choice. In one or two instances, I ignored my engine's recommendation because I thought an alternative was correct on positional grounds and there were no tactics to refute it.

    I found play there extremely time consuming. It is very difficult to win a game, but at least I've lost very few.

    Although not presently active there, I check in often enough to keep my membership intact. I might return at some point in the future if I think I have enough time to give it.

    Similarly, I have played as a cyborg in the engine room of Playchess. Most engines there refuse to play cyborgs, perhaps because a human guided engine can be too potent. My engine (running on a 32 bit box) had a rating of 2200 when as cyborg, we defeated a 2500 Rybka running on a dual 64.