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  1. 03 Mar '09 19:29
    Read all about it:

    "Last week, ChessBase was apparently ‘forced to cease Internet broadcasting of the Topalov-Kamsky match’. As we noted in our report on the first match game, live broadcasting of the chess moves in this match without permission was prohibited by the Bulgarian Chess Federation (although they didn’t seem to have a problem with Chessdom’s, Crestbook’s, ICC’s and TWIC’s live coverage). This has led to heated discussions on this site. The key question here is: can you copyright a chess move at all ?"

    Read more at:

    http://www.chessvibes.com/columns/copyright-on-chess-moves-shadows-on-the-wall/


    What's your opinion ?

    Should there be copyright on chess moves ?
  2. Standard member hunterknox
    Hopeless romantic
    03 Mar '09 19:39
    OK, I'm claiming everything starting with 1.

    So, if you play anything starting with e4, d4, c4, Nf3 etc you owe me money.

    Can't see it catching on to be honest. Chess moves want to be free.
  3. 03 Mar '09 19:43
    As I understand it, the moves themselves are public domain, but any analysis of the moves is protected by copyright.
  4. 03 Mar '09 19:59
    Not a new idea, they tried to copyright some of Lasker's World Championship matches.

    I've often thought how unfair non-copyright of games is.

    Karpov (picked at random) can play a beautiful game and all he will
    get from it is the 1 point and some satisfaction.

    But anyone, yes anyone, even a hack like me, can take the moves
    of the game, note them up and get paid for it.

    If this was artwork, writing or music then the artist/author/composer
    would get copyright and have to be paid for using his work

    The whole subject opens a can of worms.

    Who gets copyright?

    The winner, the players, the organisers of the tournament?

    What happens if I play move for move the same Karpov brilliancy?
    Am I suddenly on the copyright payroll or am I guilty of plagiarism?

    The deeper you dig the more worms are unearthed.
  5. Standard member SwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    03 Mar '09 20:13
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    Should there be copyright on chess moves ?
    Yes. I should have the right to copy the moves of anyone better than me.

    On a more serious note, no.
  6. Standard member kwgoodwin
    Geek
    04 Mar '09 14:52
    Originally posted by gaychessplayer
    As I understand it, the moves themselves are public domain, but any analysis of the moves is protected by copyright.
    That is correct.

    That's similar to the difference between the white pages and yellow pages.

    Under U.S. case law the white pages are not copyrightable, while yellow pages are copyrightable.

    Of course this could vary country to country.
  7. Standard member kwgoodwin
    Geek
    04 Mar '09 15:22
    Originally posted by ivanhoe
    Read all about it:

    "Last week, ChessBase was apparently ‘forced to cease Internet broadcasting of the Topalov-Kamsky match’. As we noted in our report on the first match game, live broadcasting of the chess moves in this match without permission was prohibited by the Bulgarian Chess Federation (although they didn’t seem to have a problem with Chessdom’s, ...[text shortened]... hadows-on-the-wall/


    What's your opinion ?

    Should there be copyright on chess moves ?
    I reviewed the articles. It appears that while BCF President Dr. Stefan Sergiev was quoted as saying; "This is a precedent in the world of chess and we are grateful to attorney Polzin for his assistance. This case will serve as a lesson to everybody who violates the copyright law." this is not a copyright case but a breach of a license agreement.

    I noticed that the viewer for the game included the following. "Warning! It is absolutely prohibited the live broadcast of the moves or video during the game on other websites, media or software without the explicit permission of the orginizers [sic] of the match."

    Therefore, breach of this potentially implied license may be actionable. I would assume that this was the actual legal threat, rather than copyright violation. Of course, even that is very, very weak. My guess is that ChessBase decided that after doing the risk v. reward analysis it wasn't worth continuing with the "live" broadcast of the match.
  8. 04 Mar '09 17:27
    Would have thought it was more breach of confidentiality. Everyone present would have been obliged to keep the actual moves played confidential and whoever let out the moves was in breach of this obligation. i.e. the moves played should not have been released in to the public domain (except as controlled).
  9. 04 Mar '09 17:27
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    Not a new idea, they tried to copyright some of Lasker's World Championship matches.

    I've often thought how unfair non-copyright of games is.

    Karpov (picked at random) can play a beautiful game and all he will
    get from it is the 1 point and some satisfaction.

    But anyone, yes anyone, even a hack like me, can take the moves
    of the game, note t ...[text shortened]... ight payroll or am I guilty of plagiarism?

    The deeper you dig the more worms are unearthed.
    Given all the worms, I think it's probably best to leave bad enough alone. Keep the games as public domain, but copyright the analysis. I'm sure that Mr. Karpov got paid plenty for playing in the tournaments in which he played brilliant games. Then, he can (and has) publish books of his games with his own analysis.
  10. Standard member buffalobill
    Major Bone
    04 Mar '09 20:49
    It sounds like it has more to do with broadcast rights to the tournament than actual copyright.