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Did black miss a win?

Did black miss a win?

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I just finished this game Game 9641061, result draw, with capajava. I found it frustrating that I couldn't find a win. I have never before had a rook v. knight like this. I've seen games where the player was successful with winning such a scenario (one example, Game 9449555), but I could not figure out how to do it myself. I know not all positions are equal though. Any thoughts from players who might have experience with this type of ending?

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Originally posted by King Tiger
I just finished this game Game 9641061, result draw, with capajava. I found it frustrating that I couldn't find a win. I have never before had a rook v. knight like this. I've seen games where the player was successful with winning such a scenario (one example, Game 9449555), but I could not figure out how to do it myself. I know not all posit ...[text shortened]... t have experience with this type of ending?

[fen]8/2r5/8/8/1N1k4/1K6/8/8 w - - 16 58[/fen]
Which side is to move?

If its black then ..Rb7

If Ka3 then ..Kc3 wins

Ka4 then Kc4 wins.

Therefore it must be white to move 😉

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Originally posted by King Tiger
I just finished this game Game 9641061, result draw, with capajava. I found it frustrating that I couldn't find a win. I have never before had a rook v. knight like this. I've seen games where the player was successful with winning such a scenario (one example, Game 9449555), but I could not figure out how to do it myself. I know not all posit ...[text shortened]... t have experience with this type of ending?

[fen]8/2r5/8/8/1N1k4/1K6/8/8 w - - 16 58[/fen]
I'm not sure if black could have won it or not. But I did enjoy clicking through the game. As a Sicilian player I liked your b and a pawn assault. Have you done this before? And with what result.
I'll let the guys that know how to play find improvements. 😞

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Originally posted by Marinkatomb
Which side is to move?
White to move, I'll put up a pgn 😉

[Event "Challenge"]
[Site "http://www.timeforchess.com"]
[Date "2012.11.06"]
[EndDate "2012.11.09"]
[Round "?"]
[White "capajava"]
[Black "King Tiger"]
[WhiteRating "2085"]
[BlackRating "2025"]
[WhiteElo "2085"]
[BlackElo "2025"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[GameId "9641061"]

1/2-1/2

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Originally posted by Marinkatomb
Which side is to move?
White's move. Sorry, guess that would have helped.

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Well a quick check of my endgame tablebase says it's a draw from here (unless white gives up his knight..)

The win must have been earlier..

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Originally posted by King Tiger
White's move. Sorry, guess that would have helped.
IMO The position in the fen is a dead draw, Fine's Rule, you need at least a 5 point advantage to win a piece only ending. Of course there are some exceptions. 😉

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pawnless_chess_endgame#Fine.27s_rule

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Originally posted by ChessPraxis
I'm not sure if black could have won it or not. But I did enjoy clicking through the game. As a Sicilian player I liked your b and a pawn assault. Have you done this before? And with what result.
I'll let the guys that know how to play find improvements. 😞
Yes, I do advance pawns, and in this case the a and b pawn very often. I'm doing it in this game too, WARNING-THIS GAME IS IN PROGRESS SO NO COMMENTS! Game 9647099. Typically the results are good, but not good enough in this game apparently since I drew. This game was a rematch actually between me and capajava because I failed to find a win with a rook v bishop in our previous game, although the bishop was anchored to a pawn...more difficult. Apparenlty I need to brush up on my endgames with a rook v knight or bishop... 🙁

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The game was a draw from the moment you exchanged rooks and entered the KN+2 v KR ending. As far as i can see white didn't have any real ways to go wrong other than losing the knight to miscalculation. Obviously there are ways to make it tricky but according to the tablebase there is a route to a draw from this position that is forced...

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Originally posted by Marinkatomb
The game was a draw from the moment you exchanged rooks and entered the KN+2 v KR ending. As far as i can see white didn't have any real ways to go wrong other than losing the knight to miscalculation. Obviously there are ways to make it tricky but according to the tablebase there is a route to a draw from this position that is forced...

[fen]8/8/8/8/5PkP/8/1r6/4NK2 w - - 0 44[/fen]
Interesting that was the result. I exchanged rooks because I thought it would end in a win eventually, oh well. Thx for the comments. At least I know I didn't fail to see the win with just a rook v knight, I failed earlier lol

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Originally posted by King Tiger
Interesting that was the result. I exchanged rooks because I thought it would end in a win eventually, oh well. Thx for the comments. At least I know I didn't fail to see the win with just a rook v knight, I failed earlier lol
You can use an online end game tablebase here..

http://www.shredderchess.com/online-chess/online-databases/endgame-database.html

It isn't the best (it only evaluates the position after the rook exchange as there is too much material on the board before) but if you want a cursory look at a very reduced material position it can be useful (after the game is finished obviously..)

EDIT: I might just add that i think your decision to exchange rooks was correct. Had you delayed then white would have advanced the pawns and i'm not sure you could have found a more opportune moment to exchange than the one you chose. 🙂